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[Music]

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this hope radio for the masses headline

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of this new July 8 1947 the Army Air

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Force has announced that a flying this

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has been found and is now in the

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possession of the RA the game is rigged

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change the game changer I occasionally

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think how quickly our differences

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worldwide would vanish if we were facing

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two black with your host Jimmy church on

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the game-changer Radio Network and a GRA

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I need your help did you do

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eighty-five

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[Music]

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you are listening to fade to black with

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Jimmy church or the game-changing

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Network

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[Music]

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good evening

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fade to black the spunk radio for the

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masses yeah how you doing how you doing

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how you doing

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spade to black Thursday night it is Faye

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that's right 193 days into the new year

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just 172 days left we are live from a

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bunker somewhere in beautiful downtown

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Burbank California and I would like to

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welcome everybody listening all around

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the world all across the United States

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hither and thither to and fro back and

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forth up and down east and west north

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and south bar near this is fade to black

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for kjc are the game changer networking

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k g ra the planet i'm your host jimmy

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church what is cracking everybody how

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you doing great you doin Thursday nights

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Fator night I'm in the chair very

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special presentation tonight because

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tonight we have very special guest

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Barrett Brown is with us that's right

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one of the most important voices of our

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generation and tonight we're gonna break

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it all down

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journalism prison the mass media and

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what it is like to live a life going

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against the grain so he can speak the

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truth that is our evening tonight and

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then later on it's Fator night which

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means open lines so Barrett is gonna

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hang with me and take your phone calls

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and this is your opportunity to not only

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reach out to Barrett and ask those

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questions you've always wanted to ask

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and and it's all there for you but also

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to say thank you alright and so you can

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do that all night tonight and wouldn't

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it be fun you know what I wanna hear one

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of you as Barrett a UFO question and the

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other day you know I don't want to

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reveal it you know too much private

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conversations but the other day bruh

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Barrett and I were talking last week and

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I was like right on right so anyway and

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we were talking about late-night talk

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radio

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you know coast to coast and and other

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things and he had brought up some of his

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articles that he had written you know

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futurism and he's right there

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you know and it was so fun to hear that

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side of him so maybe we'll go there

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tonight too as well it's your

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opportunity to do that it is your show

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our guest tonight is Barrett Brown and

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it also I did want to mention that Jon

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Rappoport again is out doing research

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and he had sent me this text which

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allowed us to you know get Barrett in

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here tonight too as well now I've been

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working on the show with Barrett now for

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two years I'll talk more about that in

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just a bit but so I get this this text

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from rapper borkus man

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okay I'm going back out emergency

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research and and I said you know go do

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your thing man I just come back and

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report from the road right so that

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allowed us to do this show tonight's

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called synchronicity everything just

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worked out so tonight Barrett Brown is

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here and I wrote up a little piece over

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at on stellar today and I I do want to

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say spending my days over it on stellar

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I mention it here all the time but you

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must understand I'm a social media

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person I like to get out there and

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connect with all of you this is a big

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big big community and we have managed to

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join together and we do it over at alum

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stellar so I was over there today I was

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writing and reading and I posted a

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little thing about tonight's show over

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there about Barrett so you can go and

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check that out and it spells out some

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details and some of that you know I like

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to post my show notes over at because I

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write you know during the day and I'm

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getting you know my head together so

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I'd like to post those show notes over

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it on stellar so you kind of get an idea

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of what I'm gonna talk about on the show

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each evening and you can go check out

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all of that over at on stellar and I

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love everybody's responses to profile

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pics because I can't get it all day long

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do they go okay man you know I'm all

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good man profile pic and I immediately

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friend and connect yeah so get over to

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on stellar ons te ll a are.com an

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amazing social media platform that is

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built for this community we've got some

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big changes coming up yes

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our video channels will be happening

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very shortly so stay tuned with that

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there's going to be a live streaming

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element ready to go and I think we're

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gonna do our first run on that I'm gonna

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host it in about a week so get ready

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we'll announce who who my guest will be

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and it's you know to testing of the

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platform just to make sure everything is

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cool so that's coming up so on stellar

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ons te ll AR comm use my referral code

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which is Jimmy you're gonna want to do

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that so just do it Jimmy get over to on

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stellar get registered and come and hang

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out with all of us you'll follow me on

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twitter @ JT radio Facebook is still

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alive for us for the time being can wait

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until I never click on Facebook again

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I'm closing that thing down

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and YouTube is still alive for us too as

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well you know we've got I don't know you

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know 60,000 some odd subscribers over

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there you know we have our fate or nots

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and we have our podcast and we have

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those subscriptions and and other things

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that are out there but there are so many

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out there that just go to youtube for

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their content and I get that

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so do we keep YouTube alive I don't know

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I don't I really don't all right but in

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the meantime it's all there you can go

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to Jimmy church radio calm and going and

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you know follow like subscribe do it

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ever you want to

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and if you're gonna hang out with us in

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twitter @j search radio of course is the

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my twitter feed but hashtag f2 B is the

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sandbox so we'll go through a few

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thousand tweets tonight like we do every

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single night on fade to black come and

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hang out with us join the conversation

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there and we have to chat rooms open one

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at Spreaker and one at kera the planet

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you can also email throughout the show

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Jimmy attributes radio calm okay

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breaking news let's get straight to it

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we've got a lot of stuff to discuss

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tonight breaking news the US Centers for

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Disease Control and Prevention said

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today that 27 more people have gotten

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sick in a multi-state outbreak of

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salmonella that's right and all of this

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is linked to Kellogg's Honey Smacks used

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to be called Sugar Smacks Honey Smacks

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that's right the cereal this brings the

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total number of illnesses to 100 since

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March and the outbreak was not announced

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until June yeah it's crazy that just

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makes you just want us to just stop and

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think

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alright they're 20% discount right now

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on all offerings from River Moon coffee

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and the promo code there is coffee break

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two words coffee break two words River

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moon coffee calm and that includes our

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fade to black

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blend ok 20% off right now River moon

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coffee don't forget to sign up for our

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soul tech gathering up at East SETI rant

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it is this August 9th through the 12th

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all you have to do is go to soul tech

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gathering calm it's going to be an

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amazing event

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we've got james gilliland we've got

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Jason quit Matthew Ryan Makayla Sheldon

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Teresa Ian Aras Holly Marie Mary

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Gabriel John lund Dana Harvey Billy

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Carson Laura can too and Christine con

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teenie all there to teach

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we've got five classrooms set up we're

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gonna be teaching for four days you're

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gonna want to come and hang out and

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learn alright and and I'm gonna be there

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we have skywatching going on every

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single night out on the field of dreams

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we've got music we've got entertainment

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we've got a party for Saturday night

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there are day passes now available if

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you don't want to come in and camp and

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hang out you just want to come from for

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one day come and do it okay with Friday

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if you want to come out for one day

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we've got the opening ceremonies and and

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everything going on in in the big hall

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and then of course Saturday our

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classrooms all day long and I'm going to

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be doing a couple of panels in the in

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the big conference room so that's going

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on and then of course Sunday the party

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all right

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great food everything is a setup and

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amazing come and hang out with us all

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right it is soul tech gathering dot-com

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all right don't forget to subscribe to

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our podcast we have over 885 archive

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shows custom apps Apple Android all

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platforms just $2 a month you can also

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become a fade or not in our membership

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section on the site where you get the

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bunker cam everybody's watching me right

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now it's kind of weird right it's radio

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but I've got a camera in here last month

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when we went through our issues with

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YouTube and we weren't running the

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bunker cam it was great I had two weeks

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of no camera staring at me in the face

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but unfortunately I've got it now there

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you go hello ever you like my shirt

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Hawaiian shirt that's right sent to me

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it's a Bali shirt actually not quite

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Hawaiian sent to me from Reverend Jimmy

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Pearson over in the UK love it

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absolutely love it he sent me a

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collection that's right and you get to

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see it right now in the bunker cam if

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you can't see it that's why all right

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don't forget all of our sponsors okay

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life change t get the t-dot-com River

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moon coffee ancient life oil sacred

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skulls new mana food storage and of

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course barring optics night vision

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let's get this show crackin happy

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birthday to today Topher Grace is 40 he

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was great in American ultra he was

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really good in get shorty the series and

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remember a Dan Fogler right all right

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Dan Fogler he was on the show here a

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couple of years ago star of the film Don

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peyote and if you haven't seen it you

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got to check out Don peyote but also and

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Freeman Freeman flies in Don peyote but

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Topher Grace is also in Don peyote

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Cheryl Ladd today is 67 and most would

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think well you know I'm saying that

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because of Charlie's Angels I am NOT now

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it's the movie millenium one of the

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great time-travel movies of all time if

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you've never seen millennium go check it

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out Michelle Rodriguez today is 40 I'm a

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big fan of Michelle but I became a

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bigger fan after I watched this iwasa

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documentary now obviously I've I've

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never taken ayahuasca or DMT I don't I

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just don't do those things I drink

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coffee chilled vodka and thick prime rib

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steaks that's my life right and friends

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and family that's me but ayahuasca is

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intriguing you know and I try to study

281
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it and a lot of our guests here talk

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about it and Graham Hancock so I'm

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watching this ayahuasca documentary

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starring Michelle Rodriguez and she goes

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down to South America and she does the

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ceremony

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and you get to talk to see her before

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and after it's amazing

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Michelle Rodriguez happy birthday today

290
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she is 40 our dead guy's birthday today

291
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is Charlie Murphy 1959 to 2017 died at

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the age of 57 best known as being a

293
00:15:04,869 --> 00:15:03,019
contributing writer and remember the

294
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sketch comedy show Chappelle's Show

295
00:15:12,069 --> 00:15:07,939
alongside comedian David Chappelle but

296
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it was his first major role in the 1993

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00:15:16,689 --> 00:15:12,559
film

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00:15:19,809 --> 00:15:16,699
cb4 that remains his funniest that's

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right playing gusto in the city of

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loCash Murphy ended up dying from

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leukemia last year on April 12th at the

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age of 57 on this day in history OTD

303
00:15:38,679 --> 00:15:34,899
disco starts its decline on this day in

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00:15:42,519 --> 00:15:38,689
1979 with the infamous disco demolition

305
00:15:45,490 --> 00:15:42,529
night at Chicago's Kaminski park that

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00:15:47,860 --> 00:15:45,500
incident which led to at least nine

307
00:15:50,199 --> 00:15:47,870
injuries thirty-nine arrests and the

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00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:50,209
cancellation and forfeit of a major

309
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:53,120
league baseball game is widely credited

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or blamed whichever one you want to

311
00:16:02,079 --> 00:15:59,480
choose with dealing disco its death blow

312
00:16:08,579 --> 00:16:02,089
on the stay 1979 now here you go

313
00:16:14,620 --> 00:16:08,589
fader fact is you ready fader fact as of

314
00:16:19,319 --> 00:16:14,630
1998 over 50% of iceland's population

315
00:16:27,809 --> 00:16:19,329
believed in the existence of wait for it

316
00:16:33,490 --> 00:16:30,460
tonight very special guest Barrett Brown

317
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:33,500
is here and we've been setting up this

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00:16:42,519 --> 00:16:39,130
show for two years and I have covered

319
00:16:47,230 --> 00:16:42,529
anonymous I have covered

320
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:47,240
activism I have interviewed many times

321
00:16:52,449 --> 00:16:49,850
Gregg Housh on this program and coast to

322
00:16:56,139 --> 00:16:52,459
coast and Gabriela Coleman otherwise

323
00:16:58,499 --> 00:16:56,149
known as Bella I have attended the whole

324
00:17:01,449 --> 00:16:58,509
conference excuse me

325
00:17:03,460 --> 00:17:01,459
the Hope conference in New York City

326
00:17:12,220 --> 00:17:03,470
Manhattan at the Roosevelt Hotel right

327
00:17:18,899 --> 00:17:12,230
there 7th Avenue and I have gone as deep

328
00:17:24,250 --> 00:17:18,909
as I can into all of this I have and

329
00:17:26,379 --> 00:17:24,260
there are three documentaries that all

330
00:17:29,350 --> 00:17:26,389
of them have appeared in Barrett and

331
00:17:31,630 --> 00:17:29,360
Greg and Gabriella and those of

332
00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:31,640
anonymous the documentaries are

333
00:17:38,650 --> 00:17:35,710
we are legion terms and conditions'

334
00:17:42,100 --> 00:17:38,660
terms and conditions may apply and the

335
00:17:45,310 --> 00:17:42,110
hacker wars' and those are three films

336
00:17:48,010 --> 00:17:45,320
that after tonight's show i suggest this

337
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:48,020
after every time i interview somebody

338
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:50,930
from anonymous these are three films

339
00:17:57,490 --> 00:17:53,120
that you need to go and watch and it's

340
00:17:59,140 --> 00:17:57,500
not so much about anonymous because

341
00:18:00,670 --> 00:17:59,150
there's the intriguing part of that

342
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:00,680
right the guy Faust master there's

343
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:04,610
there's all of that and and who they are

344
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:07,250
in that mystery and I get that but you

345
00:18:16,780 --> 00:18:11,810
need to go back further and a little bit

346
00:18:19,930 --> 00:18:16,790
wider on why even Anonymous is here okay

347
00:18:25,030 --> 00:18:19,940
but then you have the other parts of it

348
00:18:28,660 --> 00:18:25,040
where lives were affected now

349
00:18:31,660 --> 00:18:28,670
I stayed at the same hotel in New York

350
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:31,670
with a Gabriella and Greg house when I

351
00:18:37,870 --> 00:18:33,770
was there for the hope conference

352
00:18:39,850 --> 00:18:37,880
hackers on planet earth and Greg house

353
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:39,860
and Gabriella Bullock a brielle was a

354
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:42,290
professor in college in that but Gregg

355
00:18:47,470 --> 00:18:45,050
Housh somebody that also was sent to

356
00:18:49,420 --> 00:18:47,480
prison one of the nicest coolest

357
00:18:52,060 --> 00:18:49,430
brightest intelligent people you could

358
00:18:56,350 --> 00:18:52,070
ever be around very cool guy and to

359
00:19:00,580 --> 00:18:56,360
think about the wrath that was brought

360
00:19:02,490 --> 00:19:00,590
down on his life and the complications

361
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:02,500
from all of that the price that was paid

362
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:05,210
it's it's enormous and it's incredible

363
00:19:09,570 --> 00:19:07,010
and you meet I mean just think it's just

364
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:09,580
not right it's not fair I have

365
00:19:14,530 --> 00:19:12,650
thoroughly gone into all of this since

366
00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:14,540
everything started to surface back in

367
00:19:22,780 --> 00:19:20,320
the early 2000 on March 6 2012 the FBI

368
00:19:25,810 --> 00:19:22,790
executed search warrants at Barrett

369
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:25,820
Brown's apartment and and also over at

370
00:19:31,690 --> 00:19:27,410
his mother's house and they were looking

371
00:19:34,420 --> 00:19:31,700
for evidence of these crimes the items

372
00:19:36,910 --> 00:19:34,430
that they seized including and listen to

373
00:19:40,660 --> 00:19:36,920
this they were looking for records

374
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:40,670
related to HBGary InfraGard and game

375
00:19:50,850 --> 00:19:44,130
systems anonymous LulzSec the famous

376
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:50,860
LulzSec IRC chats twitter wiki Ashkelon

377
00:19:57,659 --> 00:19:54,090
- org and paceman right

378
00:20:01,380 --> 00:19:57,669
agents left with computers by the way

379
00:20:03,539 --> 00:20:01,390
all of this was on a live feed and that

380
00:20:05,970 --> 00:20:03,549
that's another story - we'll talk to

381
00:20:09,889 --> 00:20:05,980
Barrett about that and then you have as

382
00:20:13,740 --> 00:20:09,899
this reaches out now I was thoroughly

383
00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:13,750
researching all of this in the 2000s and

384
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:16,809
just totally all the way up through the

385
00:20:24,389 --> 00:20:20,730
end of everything and then you have

386
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:24,399
Jeremy Hammond talked about him a lot on

387
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:28,090
the show he was sentenced back in 2013 a

388
00:20:35,070 --> 00:20:31,919
kid a kid to serve ten years in prison

389
00:20:39,620 --> 00:20:35,080
for hacking Stratfor along of course

390
00:20:42,779 --> 00:20:39,630
with Greg house and Barrett Brown and

391
00:20:46,019 --> 00:20:42,789
and releasing those leaks through

392
00:20:50,039 --> 00:20:46,029
WikiLeaks now you may not know I talk

393
00:20:52,100 --> 00:20:50,049
about a lot on this show but when when I

394
00:20:55,139 --> 00:20:52,110
talk about WikiLeaks and I talk about

395
00:20:56,940 --> 00:20:55,149
these individuals you need to understand

396
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:56,950
the connection and the relationships

397
00:21:02,370 --> 00:20:59,200
with all of this and how the man just

398
00:21:04,860 --> 00:21:02,380
couldn't handle it 10-year prison

399
00:21:09,450 --> 00:21:04,870
sentence for releasing stuff on

400
00:21:10,980 --> 00:21:09,460
WikiLeaks ten years jeremy hammond look

401
00:21:15,379 --> 00:21:10,990
up that name and look at his face and

402
00:21:18,389 --> 00:21:15,389
you just tell me is that right Brown

403
00:21:20,909 --> 00:21:18,399
faced up to forty five years in federal

404
00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:20,919
prison they originally brought down and

405
00:21:25,049 --> 00:21:22,830
that's just for Stratfor by the way but

406
00:21:26,850 --> 00:21:25,059
they hit him with a hundred and five

407
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:26,860
years just like they did with Greg house

408
00:21:31,710 --> 00:21:30,010
and Jeremy Hammond he faced up to forty

409
00:21:38,340 --> 00:21:31,720
five years in federal prison for

410
00:21:42,690 --> 00:21:38,350
allegedly sharing a link a link a hyper

411
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:42,700
link a link to the data Stratfor as part

412
00:21:51,090 --> 00:21:46,210
of his project PM the shared link was

413
00:21:54,659 --> 00:21:51,100
apparently from Hammonds hack now I I

414
00:21:57,420 --> 00:21:54,669
need you to understand you copy and

415
00:22:01,230 --> 00:21:57,430
paste a link

416
00:22:03,150 --> 00:22:01,240
and now you're looking at 45 years as

417
00:22:08,100 --> 00:22:03,160
part of the charge is a hundred and five

418
00:22:11,370 --> 00:22:08,110
years overall for sharing a link the

419
00:22:16,140 --> 00:22:11,380
arrests were all due to an informant

420
00:22:19,260 --> 00:22:16,150
known as Sabu I have talked to everybody

421
00:22:23,820 --> 00:22:19,270
about Sabu Sabu was put in a bad

422
00:22:25,890 --> 00:22:23,830
position by the FBI and he had his

423
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:25,900
family at his kids and they were doing

424
00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:29,410
the same thing to him and then everybody

425
00:22:36,570 --> 00:22:33,310
fell bare Brown Jeremy Hammond of course

426
00:22:40,290 --> 00:22:36,580
Gregg Housh it was an incredible

427
00:22:43,890 --> 00:22:40,300
situation all because the man and

428
00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:43,900
security agencies and private security

429
00:22:51,570 --> 00:22:47,710
companies couldn't handle what was going

430
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:51,580
on with their own computers we are

431
00:22:56,820 --> 00:22:55,210
talking about young adults here and

432
00:23:00,750 --> 00:22:56,830
we're talking about the computer age and

433
00:23:03,630 --> 00:23:00,760
we're talking about 1984 it's exactly

434
00:23:07,580 --> 00:23:03,640
what was going on here and in Barrett

435
00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:07,590
Brown's case he's a journalist he is

436
00:23:14,250 --> 00:23:10,240
activist he is somebody that's out there

437
00:23:16,380 --> 00:23:14,260
trying to make change in society he

438
00:23:19,380 --> 00:23:16,390
copied and pasted a link and then

439
00:23:22,710 --> 00:23:19,390
everything unraveled for him and they

440
00:23:26,330 --> 00:23:22,720
came straight after his mom some of the

441
00:23:29,460 --> 00:23:26,340
things that were posted by Barrett

442
00:23:32,420 --> 00:23:29,470
videos we will talk about that the

443
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:32,430
bathtub videos and and others

444
00:23:39,210 --> 00:23:36,880
threatening the FBI because of a direct

445
00:23:40,980 --> 00:23:39,220
result of you know not only his

446
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:40,990
emotional state at the time and

447
00:23:46,380 --> 00:23:42,490
certainly being threatened and being on

448
00:23:51,450 --> 00:23:46,390
the run but for them coming down on his

449
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:51,460
mom and it which is what the man does

450
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:54,250
and the man did all of this and going

451
00:23:59,370 --> 00:23:56,890
back to Sabu because they couldn't

452
00:24:02,820 --> 00:23:59,380
control the narrative they couldn't they

453
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:02,830
do anonymous was decentralized there was

454
00:24:09,420 --> 00:24:05,890
a very loose situation that was going on

455
00:24:10,980 --> 00:24:09,430
here that they didn't understand and

456
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:10,990
that's where we

457
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:16,090
today and when we go back and look we

458
00:24:22,919 --> 00:24:21,010
look at the events of 2016 2017 and we

459
00:24:26,580 --> 00:24:22,929
think about the complications in our

460
00:24:29,580 --> 00:24:26,590
lives today with mass media with social

461
00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:29,590
media platforms with with fake news and

462
00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:31,600
and the journalism that is going on

463
00:24:37,139 --> 00:24:33,760
today and the way that the man controls

464
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:37,149
us and not only controls their daily

465
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:40,480
dogma that they continue to do but they

466
00:24:45,870 --> 00:24:43,450
want to divide and conquer all of us and

467
00:24:49,169 --> 00:24:45,880
get us in fighting that's how you

468
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:49,179
control us by getting us out of control

469
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:51,610
getting our eyes off of the prize

470
00:24:57,360 --> 00:24:54,640
getting our eyes away from the reality

471
00:24:59,460 --> 00:24:57,370
of of the important things that are out

472
00:25:02,039 --> 00:24:59,470
there and you need to think about that

473
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:02,049
and who is doing something about that

474
00:25:06,990 --> 00:25:04,690
the decentralization of everything well

475
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:07,000
certainly on stellar and what it

476
00:25:12,419 --> 00:25:09,610
represents is part of that but this is

477
00:25:15,510 --> 00:25:12,429
something that Barrett Brown and others

478
00:25:18,149 --> 00:25:15,520
have been talking about and and seeing

479
00:25:21,510 --> 00:25:18,159
the future of for a very long time for

480
00:25:24,570 --> 00:25:21,520
us and paid the price because the man

481
00:25:26,399 --> 00:25:24,580
doesn't want us talking about it that's

482
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:26,409
the importance of this show it's the

483
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:28,690
importance of my life and when you sit

484
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:30,730
down and listen to me

485
00:25:37,169 --> 00:25:34,090
on an evening talking about friends and

486
00:25:39,779 --> 00:25:37,179
family and cooking out and in this

487
00:25:41,820 --> 00:25:39,789
community and and everything that I deal

488
00:25:44,730 --> 00:25:41,830
with on this show and cracking jokes and

489
00:25:48,539 --> 00:25:44,740
music and guitar and and all of that

490
00:25:50,250 --> 00:25:48,549
these are the things that drive me and I

491
00:25:52,909 --> 00:25:50,260
know that you are concerned by the same

492
00:25:57,570 --> 00:25:52,919
things because that's why you are here

493
00:26:00,330 --> 00:25:57,580
so going back to years ago as I started

494
00:26:02,909 --> 00:26:00,340
to cover all of these important things

495
00:26:05,460 --> 00:26:02,919
and I went out to New York and I went to

496
00:26:07,950 --> 00:26:05,470
the Hope conference and I was out there

497
00:26:10,289 --> 00:26:07,960
with my team and my production team and

498
00:26:13,289 --> 00:26:10,299
and cameras and producers and directors

499
00:26:15,419 --> 00:26:13,299
and assistants and sound and lights and

500
00:26:17,549 --> 00:26:15,429
all of that stuff that we did going into

501
00:26:22,049 --> 00:26:17,559
the Hope conference and it wasn't a

502
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:22,059
pretty day for me weekend because not

503
00:26:27,900 --> 00:26:24,730
only was Barrett in prison and others

504
00:26:30,090 --> 00:26:27,910
and Jeremy Hammond these things were

505
00:26:33,210 --> 00:26:30,100
going on for them and I show up as a

506
00:26:36,690 --> 00:26:33,220
member of the media and a television

507
00:26:41,550 --> 00:26:36,700
network and a radio network trying to

508
00:26:43,770 --> 00:26:41,560
get this story out why because nobody

509
00:26:47,130 --> 00:26:43,780
else will talk about it and that's why I

510
00:26:49,650 --> 00:26:47,140
was there and that it continues to this

511
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:49,660
day and and now Barrett got out of

512
00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:52,000
prison and I've been after Barrett for

513
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:54,370
the last two years because tonight is

514
00:26:59,550 --> 00:26:55,650
the trifecta

515
00:27:02,640 --> 00:26:59,560
Gabriella Bella Greg house and now

516
00:27:04,950 --> 00:27:02,650
tonight Barrett Brown it's a very

517
00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:04,960
important show you need to understand

518
00:27:10,530 --> 00:27:08,080
how Barrett got here how I got here

519
00:27:13,140 --> 00:27:10,540
would joined us up tonight and and you

520
00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:13,150
are gonna be part of all of this okay

521
00:27:18,690 --> 00:27:16,000
and now so this is the setup for the

522
00:27:21,330 --> 00:27:18,700
show we're gonna do two segments with

523
00:27:23,370 --> 00:27:21,340
Barrett and myself and then after that

524
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:23,380
we're gonna open up the phone lines for

525
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:25,690
you it's an important day you will

526
00:27:31,620 --> 00:27:28,930
remember this show have fun enjoy it

527
00:27:34,530 --> 00:27:31,630
listen listen to it again and there you

528
00:27:37,950 --> 00:27:34,540
go this is fade to black I am your host

529
00:27:41,970 --> 00:27:37,960
Jimmy Church I am so happy to have

530
00:27:43,260 --> 00:27:41,980
gotten to July 12th the 2018 bear Brown

531
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:43,270
will be here right after this short

532
00:27:49,650 --> 00:27:45,690
break you can follow me on Twitter at

533
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:49,660
JDO you can follow Barrett at Barrett

534
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:52,450
Brown underscore at the end it's all

535
00:27:57,660 --> 00:27:54,610
right there in Twitter now I'm gonna go

536
00:27:59,820 --> 00:27:57,670
to a break and when I come back or while

537
00:28:01,590 --> 00:27:59,830
I'm at break I want you to check out

538
00:28:04,350 --> 00:28:01,600
this tweet that I'm about to do of

539
00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:04,360
Barrett it's absolutely incredible I'll

540
00:28:39,580 --> 00:28:36,540
[Music]

541
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:39,590
you're listening to Jimmy Church fade to

542
00:28:56,710 --> 00:28:45,840
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contact for the best alternative talk

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radio on the planet

597
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hi this is Rob Reiner from anvil and

598
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:44,379
you're listening to Jimmy Church

599
00:31:52,950 --> 00:31:50,559
radio.com and we're listening the Shamy

600
00:32:00,450 --> 00:31:52,960
Church radio

601
00:32:00,460 --> 00:32:06,620
[Music]

602
00:32:12,509 --> 00:32:09,889
all right welcome back fade to black

603
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:12,519
our meals Jimmy Church very special

604
00:32:18,149 --> 00:32:14,710
night tonight it is Fator night Thursday

605
00:32:22,590 --> 00:32:18,159
night open lines with a very special

606
00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:22,600
guest Barrett Brown is here okay I laid

607
00:32:26,539 --> 00:32:24,880
it out in my little opening rants and I

608
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:26,549
think you get it

609
00:32:33,990 --> 00:32:30,330
Barrett is a writer he's an anarchist

610
00:32:35,549 --> 00:32:34,000
activist his work has appeared in Vanity

611
00:32:37,529 --> 00:32:35,559
Fair of the Guardian the intercept

612
00:32:40,049 --> 00:32:37,539
Huffington Post New York craft skeptic

613
00:32:43,379 --> 00:32:40,059
The Daily Beast al-jazeera and dozens of

614
00:32:45,950 --> 00:32:43,389
other media outlets 2009 he founded

615
00:32:48,779 --> 00:32:45,960
project p.m. a distributed think-tank

616
00:32:50,730 --> 00:32:48,789
which was later repurposed to oversee a

617
00:32:53,159 --> 00:32:50,740
crowdsource investigation into the

618
00:32:55,169 --> 00:32:53,169
private espionage industry and the

619
00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:55,179
intelligence community at large via

620
00:33:01,200 --> 00:32:57,760
email stolen from federal contractors

621
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:01,210
and other sources in 2011 and 2012 he

622
00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:03,370
worked with anonymous on campaigns

623
00:33:08,460 --> 00:33:05,679
involving the Tunisian Revolution

624
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:08,470
government misconduct and all of those

625
00:33:14,820 --> 00:33:12,490
other issues in mid 2012 he was arrested

626
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:14,830
and later sentenced to four years in

627
00:33:18,299 --> 00:33:16,450
federal prison on charges stemming from

628
00:33:21,419 --> 00:33:18,309
his investigations and work with

629
00:33:23,490 --> 00:33:21,429
anonymous while in prison though he won

630
00:33:26,610 --> 00:33:23,500
the National Magazine Award for his

631
00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:26,620
column the Barrett Brown Review of Arts

632
00:33:31,649 --> 00:33:29,200
and Letters and prison upon his release

633
00:33:34,830 --> 00:33:31,659
in late 2016 he began work on the

634
00:33:37,019 --> 00:33:34,840
pursuance system platform for mass civic

635
00:33:38,549 --> 00:33:37,029
engagement and coordinated opposition

636
00:33:41,549 --> 00:33:38,559
we're going to be talking about that

637
00:33:44,070 --> 00:33:41,559
tonight and his third book it's called

638
00:33:47,970 --> 00:33:44,080
my glorious defeats will be released

639
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:47,980
from fire Straus and Giroux in February

640
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:51,010
2000 nineteen I would like to welcome to

641
00:33:55,230 --> 00:33:52,960
fade to black for the first time mr.

642
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:55,240
Barrett Brown Barrett good evening my

643
00:33:59,580 --> 00:33:57,850
friend how are you I'm fantastic thank

644
00:34:01,590 --> 00:33:59,590
you for having me on it's good to hear

645
00:34:04,379 --> 00:34:01,600
your voice actually when I spoke to you

646
00:34:07,230 --> 00:34:04,389
last week as a man it's so good to hear

647
00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:07,240
your voice so how are you doing let's

648
00:34:13,889 --> 00:34:09,849
actually get that out first how are you

649
00:34:19,379 --> 00:34:13,899
today fantastic fantastic and I I agree

650
00:34:24,299 --> 00:34:21,500
you get the first-time guests disclaimer

651
00:34:26,359 --> 00:34:24,309
you're gonna be on with us a lot in the

652
00:34:28,769 --> 00:34:26,369
future and I look forward to that but

653
00:34:31,109 --> 00:34:28,779
tonight you get the first-time guests

654
00:34:33,269 --> 00:34:31,119
disclaimer which is very it's just you

655
00:34:35,339 --> 00:34:33,279
and I sitting on my couch having a

656
00:34:37,409 --> 00:34:35,349
conversation as friends where it starts

657
00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:37,419
it starts where it ends it ends but

658
00:34:41,819 --> 00:34:39,609
we're gonna end as friends there it is

659
00:34:43,230 --> 00:34:41,829
you ready to go what's very reassuring

660
00:34:46,740 --> 00:34:43,240
absolutely okay

661
00:34:48,690 --> 00:34:46,750
now I want to start with the present day

662
00:34:51,419 --> 00:34:48,700
and and your mindset and then we're

663
00:34:56,759 --> 00:34:51,429
gonna go backwards of for for a little

664
00:35:00,019 --> 00:34:56,769
bit but today did you ever back in 2008

665
00:35:04,730 --> 00:35:00,029
2007 2006 in your journalistic career

666
00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:04,740
have any idea about the turmoil and the

667
00:35:11,849 --> 00:35:08,710
1984 aurelion nightmare that ended up

668
00:35:14,579 --> 00:35:11,859
unraveling and a journalist being

669
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:14,589
arrested and that we would be talking

670
00:35:20,849 --> 00:35:17,410
about this stuff today did in your

671
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:20,859
futurist it's mind that you think that

672
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:23,170
this would have happened you know I

673
00:35:28,380 --> 00:35:25,450
guess I didn't come to think of it I had

674
00:35:30,089 --> 00:35:28,390
some pretty severe ideas about what

675
00:35:33,509 --> 00:35:30,099
might happen to the American Republic

676
00:35:35,009 --> 00:35:33,519
over the next couple decades but it

677
00:35:37,289 --> 00:35:35,019
didn't occur to me I you know I was a

678
00:35:38,279 --> 00:35:37,299
humor writer in large part in addition

679
00:35:41,130 --> 00:35:38,289
to being a journalist that's how I

680
00:35:43,759 --> 00:35:41,140
started out and this was a trajectory

681
00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:43,769
that kind of came about by a number of

682
00:35:50,490 --> 00:35:46,000
events you know that I could not have

683
00:35:53,339 --> 00:35:50,500
possibly predicted the the vision of the

684
00:35:55,079 --> 00:35:53,349
future which is something largely well

685
00:35:57,539 --> 00:35:55,089
the humor side of it was always cool and

686
00:36:01,319 --> 00:35:57,549
it and your personality came out that

687
00:36:05,130 --> 00:36:01,329
way you were you were in demand you were

688
00:36:08,759 --> 00:36:05,140
somebody that all of the publication's

689
00:36:11,519 --> 00:36:08,769
wanted you to write for them and did

690
00:36:14,309 --> 00:36:11,529
that affect things somewhat in other

691
00:36:16,849 --> 00:36:14,319
words did Eagle come into play as well

692
00:36:19,620 --> 00:36:16,859
not only through your writing but

693
00:36:23,970 --> 00:36:19,630
starting to face the man that you could

694
00:36:25,499 --> 00:36:23,980
take all of this on I always I've had

695
00:36:27,539 --> 00:36:25,509
very negative Michael

696
00:36:29,490 --> 00:36:27,549
tendencies since I was a small child so

697
00:36:31,499 --> 00:36:29,500
that part of it is actually pretty

698
00:36:33,690 --> 00:36:31,509
pretty in sync with everything else

699
00:36:35,850 --> 00:36:33,700
obviously as I

700
00:36:40,370 --> 00:36:35,860
started to look at the possibilities of

701
00:36:42,450 --> 00:36:40,380
the Internet as a adolescent there was

702
00:36:44,370 --> 00:36:42,460
there was a sense that there was this is

703
00:36:45,300 --> 00:36:44,380
a this was a land grab that this was

704
00:36:47,310 --> 00:36:45,310
something on which you could make

705
00:36:48,660 --> 00:36:47,320
yourself without having to climb up the

706
00:36:49,890 --> 00:36:48,670
institutional ladders and all that or

707
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:49,900
get it to college degree or any of those

708
00:36:54,020 --> 00:36:52,930
things this was something it was very

709
00:36:58,350 --> 00:36:54,030
apparent to me that this was something

710
00:37:01,800 --> 00:36:58,360
new and open just like the old you know

711
00:37:04,950 --> 00:37:01,810
frontiers it was exactly that and then

712
00:37:07,590 --> 00:37:04,960
the other fascinating part about this

713
00:37:11,070 --> 00:37:07,600
and I have asked Bella I've asked Gregg

714
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:11,080
Housh the same important question I'm

715
00:37:18,270 --> 00:37:15,520
going to lay this out to you the man in

716
00:37:21,690 --> 00:37:18,280
general the man didn't understand

717
00:37:24,090 --> 00:37:21,700
anonymous but anonymous may not have

718
00:37:27,500 --> 00:37:24,100
understood anonymous as well in that

719
00:37:31,230 --> 00:37:27,510
what started off as lulz and laughter

720
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:31,240
turned out to take down governments and

721
00:37:37,770 --> 00:37:34,450
countries all the other that's a whole

722
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:37,780
other thing and did you envision that

723
00:37:45,420 --> 00:37:41,530
happening too as well I did actually

724
00:37:47,850 --> 00:37:45,430
when I first came across the the online

725
00:37:51,090 --> 00:37:47,860
venues from which anonymous eventually

726
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:51,100
sprung which was 4chan org back in 2006

727
00:37:58,790 --> 00:37:52,810
there was something there that

728
00:38:01,260 --> 00:37:58,800
fascinated me quite a bit the ability to

729
00:38:03,690 --> 00:38:01,270
bring in and sort of harness large

730
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:03,700
numbers of people very quickly and allow

731
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:05,770
them to put their ideas into play and

732
00:38:12,060 --> 00:38:09,610
act upon those ideas this this was very

733
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:12,070
new and even though it was being

734
00:38:16,190 --> 00:38:13,690
directed at that time with these little

735
00:38:21,930 --> 00:38:16,200
sort of got us you know surreal pranks

736
00:38:23,820 --> 00:38:21,940
the the the basic the basic the basic

737
00:38:25,710 --> 00:38:23,830
ethos of this the basic the basic

738
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:25,720
structure around it was kind of the same

739
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:28,450
it was basically there was a period the

740
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:30,250
big problem in 21st century is going to

741
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:33,250
be how do you arrange large numbers of

742
00:38:37,410 --> 00:38:35,010
people or allow them to self arrange

743
00:38:38,550 --> 00:38:37,420
some particular end now that that's

744
00:38:41,730 --> 00:38:38,560
possible for the first time in human

745
00:38:43,020 --> 00:38:41,740
history and that was one of the early

746
00:38:44,490 --> 00:38:43,030
answers it was it was an accidental

747
00:38:47,010 --> 00:38:44,500
answer it was something that was not

748
00:38:49,010 --> 00:38:47,020
supposed to be an answer but it was some

749
00:38:51,390 --> 00:38:49,020
that tells give us a lesson that

750
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:51,400
anything to become anything else for one

751
00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:55,330
thing and that there is a great deal

752
00:39:02,640 --> 00:38:58,330
we're going to see in the decades to

753
00:39:04,260 --> 00:39:02,650
come come out of these amorphous online

754
00:39:05,340 --> 00:39:04,270
movements they will give rise to all

755
00:39:07,340 --> 00:39:05,350
sorts of things and they're gonna be

756
00:39:10,340 --> 00:39:07,350
very very hard for us to envision today

757
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:10,350
even with the experience we have now

758
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:17,170
going back this this question isn't the

759
00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:19,450
the simple one which is would you have

760
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:20,710
done anything different

761
00:39:26,430 --> 00:39:23,170
no that's not the question the question

762
00:39:28,830 --> 00:39:26,440
is would you now knowing that you did go

763
00:39:32,460 --> 00:39:28,840
to prison that would you have done

764
00:39:34,590 --> 00:39:32,470
something more extreme anyway right with

765
00:39:36,150 --> 00:39:34,600
what did you hold back was there

766
00:39:38,370 --> 00:39:36,160
something else that you would have liked

767
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:38,380
to have done back then that you know

768
00:39:42,150 --> 00:39:40,090
what you went to prison anyway was there

769
00:39:44,910 --> 00:39:42,160
something else that you could have

770
00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:44,920
driven some screws in now I can always

771
00:39:47,730 --> 00:39:45,730
go to prison again

772
00:39:49,140 --> 00:39:47,740
yeah pretty happy with the balance I

773
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:49,150
struck back and the great thing about

774
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:51,010
the DOJ coming after me in the way they

775
00:39:56,730 --> 00:39:53,890
did well was that it was so it was so

776
00:39:58,230 --> 00:39:56,740
over overdone and so suspicious that

777
00:39:59,810 --> 00:39:58,240
even mainstream outlets that are

778
00:40:01,740 --> 00:39:59,820
generally not real quick on the uptake

779
00:40:03,660 --> 00:40:01,750
figured out pretty quickly this was

780
00:40:05,370 --> 00:40:03,670
retaliation for my investigative work in

781
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:05,380
two firms working with the government

782
00:40:08,820 --> 00:40:07,210
and so they made the case for me and for

783
00:40:10,230 --> 00:40:08,830
the research that we did with project PM

784
00:40:12,690 --> 00:40:10,240
and with some of these people from

785
00:40:14,820 --> 00:40:12,700
anonymous they made the case for how

786
00:40:19,050 --> 00:40:14,830
important that stuff was in a way that I

787
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:19,060
never could any regrets I would imagine

788
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:21,970
so but having said that one never knows

789
00:40:29,070 --> 00:40:27,370
what sort of drawbacks and difficulties

790
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:29,080
are going to later on open up new

791
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:30,850
horizons and that's certainly true for

792
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:33,040
me so I feel like I shouldn't regret

793
00:40:40,050 --> 00:40:36,370
anything when you when you got released

794
00:40:43,110 --> 00:40:40,060
I watched the film right and that the

795
00:40:44,850 --> 00:40:43,120
little short documentary and I'm looking

796
00:40:49,350 --> 00:40:44,860
at your parents and specifically your

797
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:49,360
mom and now not to get any emotions out

798
00:40:54,540 --> 00:40:51,370
of you or anything but you look at your

799
00:40:57,720 --> 00:40:54,550
mom who and your dad who are your

800
00:41:01,170 --> 00:40:57,730
parents and obviously love you but I my

801
00:41:04,079 --> 00:41:01,180
blood boils that that is the tact

802
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:04,089
that the FBI took was to put pressure on

803
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:08,130
you via your parents who are obviously

804
00:41:13,950 --> 00:41:11,170
two of the coolest ground is people out

805
00:41:17,370 --> 00:41:13,960
there and that ignited a lot of your

806
00:41:20,940 --> 00:41:17,380
anger back then too as well how do you

807
00:41:23,730 --> 00:41:20,950
feel are you a do you do you accept what

808
00:41:27,390 --> 00:41:23,740
they did or do you still you know boil

809
00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:27,400
just a little bit that's something that

810
00:41:31,470 --> 00:41:29,920
you know I'll have plenty of time to to

811
00:41:35,569 --> 00:41:31,480
respond to in the future I mean I've

812
00:41:38,099 --> 00:41:35,579
learned patience you can't forgive a

813
00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:38,109
police agency that you already despised

814
00:41:42,690 --> 00:41:39,280
in which you already think is

815
00:41:44,130 --> 00:41:42,700
fundamentally dangerous and Dilla tereus

816
00:41:47,130 --> 00:41:44,140
to the things this country we're

817
00:41:49,260 --> 00:41:47,140
supposed to be about you can't forgive

818
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:49,270
them on top of all that for going after

819
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:50,650
your mother for prosecuting your mother

820
00:41:55,740 --> 00:41:52,240
in order to try to get you to cooperate

821
00:41:59,069 --> 00:41:55,750
with them it was I was just a just a

822
00:42:03,960 --> 00:41:59,079
crazy story and so let's actually go

823
00:42:05,700 --> 00:42:03,970
back and not not getting really specific

824
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:05,710
we don't need to do that tonight

825
00:42:15,349 --> 00:42:10,450
but as things started to you know we can

826
00:42:18,829 --> 00:42:15,359
go back actually with with Jeremy and

827
00:42:22,980 --> 00:42:18,839
take a look at that part of things where

828
00:42:25,620 --> 00:42:22,990
obviously you didn't know what was going

829
00:42:26,970 --> 00:42:25,630
on the investigation and the way that

830
00:42:29,970 --> 00:42:26,980
they were doing things otherwise it

831
00:42:32,579 --> 00:42:29,980
would have ended differently but did you

832
00:42:34,620 --> 00:42:32,589
have suspicions were you looking at some

833
00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:34,630
of these situations that they were

834
00:42:41,069 --> 00:42:38,710
closing in did you have any idea yes

835
00:42:42,539 --> 00:42:41,079
there were a number of indications even

836
00:42:44,099 --> 00:42:42,549
aside from the usual through a paranoia

837
00:42:45,900 --> 00:42:44,109
that always crops up whenever you're

838
00:42:47,819 --> 00:42:45,910
doing something that the FBI is probably

839
00:42:50,579 --> 00:42:47,829
after you about for one thing that were

840
00:42:51,990 --> 00:42:50,589
there were the time at the point I got

841
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:52,000
involved anonymous to work on the

842
00:42:56,700 --> 00:42:53,890
Tunisian Revolution which was something

843
00:42:58,140 --> 00:42:56,710
that a lot of Tunisians were involved in

844
00:43:00,030 --> 00:42:58,150
on the anonymous front as and some of

845
00:43:01,410 --> 00:43:00,040
the fellow who later on when the

846
00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:01,420
provisional government was a member of

847
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:03,730
our Anan ops server from which a lot of

848
00:43:07,770 --> 00:43:05,890
this stuff was organized back then at

849
00:43:11,010 --> 00:43:07,780
the time I joined the FBI had just

850
00:43:14,190 --> 00:43:11,020
raided 40 households in the u.s. guns

851
00:43:14,670 --> 00:43:14,200
drawn families herded into the living

852
00:43:17,010 --> 00:43:14,680
room

853
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:17,020
all electronics taken because of the

854
00:43:20,970 --> 00:43:18,850
DDoS attacks the denial of service

855
00:43:23,510 --> 00:43:20,980
attacks that a couple thousand people

856
00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:23,520
had participated in to knock down

857
00:43:26,670 --> 00:43:24,640
mastercards

858
00:43:30,090 --> 00:43:26,680
sort of corporate website for a few

859
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:30,100
seconds which didn't cause any damage to

860
00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:31,690
the the ability to process payments by

861
00:43:37,650 --> 00:43:35,440
the way a very minor almost kind of a

862
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:37,660
digital sit in and that elicited this

863
00:43:41,490 --> 00:43:39,850
massive nationwide police response and

864
00:43:42,810 --> 00:43:41,500
then simultaneous raids in Britain so

865
00:43:45,690 --> 00:43:42,820
that was the situation when I got

866
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:45,700
involved the first things I you know was

867
00:43:50,250 --> 00:43:48,010
doing aside from the Tunisia assistance

868
00:43:51,810 --> 00:43:50,260
program was getting lawyers for these

869
00:43:54,630 --> 00:43:51,820
people going to the National Lawyers

870
00:43:56,340 --> 00:43:54,640
Guild going to jail II Durman going to

871
00:43:58,500 --> 00:43:56,350
some of these other sort of radical old

872
00:43:59,700 --> 00:43:58,510
attorneys and getting identifying the

873
00:44:01,530 --> 00:43:59,710
people who raided and been putting them

874
00:44:03,390 --> 00:44:01,540
together so I heard a lot from these

875
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:03,400
people who've been raided about exactly

876
00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:05,890
what happens so there was never there

877
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:09,250
was never a question that this was a

878
00:44:13,650 --> 00:44:10,570
path that led in one particular

879
00:44:15,180 --> 00:44:13,660
direction and as time went on as we

880
00:44:17,870 --> 00:44:15,190
started discovering things that were

881
00:44:21,110 --> 00:44:17,880
very upsetting to the US government's

882
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:21,120
there were more indications that that

883
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:23,530
you know that I was I would eventually

884
00:44:32,550 --> 00:44:28,210
be targeted the the other part for me on

885
00:44:36,900 --> 00:44:32,560
the outside looking in it was a harsh

886
00:44:38,730 --> 00:44:36,910
reality check for the FBI and all of

887
00:44:42,990 --> 00:44:38,740
those agencies that were looking into

888
00:44:45,210 --> 00:44:43,000
this that it was decentralized and this

889
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:45,220
was something that they were used to

890
00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:50,910
the exact opposite is what they were

891
00:44:55,470 --> 00:44:52,720
dealing with here do you think but I

892
00:44:58,260 --> 00:44:55,480
came down also as hard as they did

893
00:45:01,860 --> 00:44:58,270
because you know they were just you know

894
00:45:05,090 --> 00:45:01,870
pissed off that that they couldn't they

895
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:05,100
couldn't control this situation at all

896
00:45:09,540 --> 00:45:07,090
that's that's a very strong possibility

897
00:45:12,330 --> 00:45:09,550
among among the many many slaps in the

898
00:45:15,030 --> 00:45:12,340
face that we gave not only them but also

899
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:15,040
the GCHQ in England and a number of

900
00:45:20,490 --> 00:45:18,130
actual you know dictatorships and just

901
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:20,500
companies all over the world you know in

902
00:45:26,670 --> 00:45:23,010
some point Anonymous got in on a

903
00:45:28,260 --> 00:45:26,680
Interpol FBI phone conference recorded

904
00:45:29,820 --> 00:45:28,270
it and posted it online a few minutes

905
00:45:31,650 --> 00:45:29,830
pretended and it was a bet the

906
00:45:34,260 --> 00:45:31,660
conference was a bad anonymous but that

907
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:34,270
was embarrassing to the FBI things like

908
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:36,130
that you know if any of you ever dealt

909
00:45:41,550 --> 00:45:39,010
with authority figures you know that to

910
00:45:43,230 --> 00:45:41,560
injure them in some way is to invite

911
00:45:45,660 --> 00:45:43,240
retribution and when there was a great

912
00:45:49,710 --> 00:45:45,670
deal of injury you know in their

913
00:45:51,060 --> 00:45:49,720
direction during that period the the you

914
00:45:53,430 --> 00:45:51,070
know so it would be it would have been

915
00:45:54,660 --> 00:45:53,440
surprising had they not reacted partly

916
00:45:56,100 --> 00:45:54,670
because of that but also from a policy

917
00:45:58,710 --> 00:45:56,110
standpoint from the standpoint of a

918
00:46:01,260 --> 00:45:58,720
government or from people who basically

919
00:46:03,270 --> 00:46:01,270
just sort of accept that degree of

920
00:46:05,250 --> 00:46:03,280
authoritarian governments as necessary

921
00:46:08,070 --> 00:46:05,260
something like anonymous that that comes

922
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:08,080
out of nowhere and is at one year rating

923
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:09,610
video game servers and making little

924
00:46:14,190 --> 00:46:12,010
little memes right and a few years later

925
00:46:16,050 --> 00:46:14,200
is taking down is helping to take down

926
00:46:17,610 --> 00:46:16,060
the Tunisian government and then a year

927
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:17,620
later you've got the NSA director saying

928
00:46:20,850 --> 00:46:18,730
these people will be able to take out

929
00:46:21,660 --> 00:46:20,860
power plants soon he was lying about

930
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:21,670
that I don't think you really believe

931
00:46:26,370 --> 00:46:24,010
that but it was something that the the

932
00:46:30,060 --> 00:46:26,380
trajectory I'm sure was very alarming to

933
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:30,070
a lot of people and so okay so now take

934
00:46:38,370 --> 00:46:35,530
us up to that day of the arrest again

935
00:46:40,830 --> 00:46:38,380
it's not so much about the

936
00:46:43,740 --> 00:46:40,840
sensationalism of it but there was it

937
00:46:45,540 --> 00:46:43,750
was it was a live video feed to I wanted

938
00:46:49,260 --> 00:46:45,550
to ask you about that were you

939
00:46:52,350 --> 00:46:49,270
anticipating anything on that specific

940
00:46:54,270 --> 00:46:52,360
day yes I was for one thing first of all

941
00:46:56,190 --> 00:46:54,280
they had rated me without arresting me

942
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:56,200
in my mom's house as well and took an

943
00:46:59,160 --> 00:46:57,970
electronics all that they left the

944
00:47:01,320 --> 00:46:59,170
search warrant which michael hastings

945
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:01,330
put up on BuzzFeed after that it's still

946
00:47:04,740 --> 00:47:03,250
up there you can see the exact companies

947
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:04,750
they were looking into with HBGary

948
00:47:08,670 --> 00:47:07,450
in-game systems our web site on which we

949
00:47:10,950 --> 00:47:08,680
compiled our information about these

950
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:10,960
companies and my dream project p.m. that

951
00:47:13,950 --> 00:47:12,370
was the that was always the point of

952
00:47:15,420 --> 00:47:13,960
this that's that's you know the search

953
00:47:17,250 --> 00:47:15,430
the secret search warrant started

954
00:47:20,700 --> 00:47:17,260
shortly after we revealed all this stuff

955
00:47:24,180 --> 00:47:20,710
to the public um so and then I was I

956
00:47:26,910 --> 00:47:24,190
would received sort of a tip on March

957
00:47:29,340 --> 00:47:26,920
5th mm I'm sorry not much but yeah March

958
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:29,350
50 doesn't 12 about that rate I did was

959
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:31,690
not tipped off about the actual the next

960
00:47:36,090 --> 00:47:33,010
rate which is about six seven months

961
00:47:37,410 --> 00:47:36,100
later when they stormed my apartment

962
00:47:38,970 --> 00:47:37,420
with the SWAT team that was something

963
00:47:40,470 --> 00:47:38,980
that took me by surprise and that I

964
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:40,480
think that comes across and recording

965
00:47:45,630 --> 00:47:42,370
that's online

966
00:47:49,530 --> 00:47:45,640
and what what what ultimately did they

967
00:47:51,090 --> 00:47:49,540
do there did you think that this was did

968
00:47:54,030 --> 00:47:51,100
you have any idea like this was your

969
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:54,040
last day of freedom for a number of

970
00:47:59,550 --> 00:47:56,050
years did you think you ought to get

971
00:48:02,610 --> 00:47:59,560
released later on that day you know not

972
00:48:03,900 --> 00:48:02,620
really after in the aftermath after the

973
00:48:07,620 --> 00:48:03,910
raid which was you know went very

974
00:48:09,270 --> 00:48:07,630
quickly it occurred to me it well

975
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:09,280
actually no at first I thought you know

976
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:11,290
I know exactly what these guys gonna

977
00:48:15,060 --> 00:48:13,330
charge me with and I know it's nonsense

978
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:15,070
so surely it should be easy for me a

979
00:48:20,580 --> 00:48:18,610
journalist who has a megaphone to bring

980
00:48:22,590 --> 00:48:20,590
that to public attention and I'm sure

981
00:48:25,020 --> 00:48:22,600
the courts work the same way and so I

982
00:48:27,330 --> 00:48:25,030
was very naive I didn't realize I had

983
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:27,340
never really dealt with the federal

984
00:48:32,250 --> 00:48:29,770
courts before and I knew in the abstract

985
00:48:36,150 --> 00:48:32,260
of the DOJ is a very imperfect Institute

986
00:48:37,530 --> 00:48:36,160
but I did not know very much at all

987
00:48:40,110 --> 00:48:37,540
compared to what I know now about that

988
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:40,120
system how much of it can you discuss

989
00:48:46,970 --> 00:48:43,050
right now am i free to just ask whatever

990
00:48:50,100 --> 00:48:46,980
okay did they offer you that first day

991
00:48:52,410 --> 00:48:50,110
Barrett did they offer you a deal to

992
00:48:54,030 --> 00:48:52,420
flip no they hadn't actually even

993
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:54,040
charged me there was it was a criminal

994
00:48:57,660 --> 00:48:55,810
complaint they used to come raid me and

995
00:48:59,190 --> 00:48:57,670
then they had 30 days to confer some

996
00:49:01,110 --> 00:48:59,200
charges and they charged me with

997
00:49:02,310 --> 00:49:01,120
threatening a federal agent based on my

998
00:49:04,290 --> 00:49:02,320
comment that I was going to investigate

999
00:49:07,020 --> 00:49:04,300
this guy in the same way this

1000
00:49:09,900 --> 00:49:07,030
intelligence contractor had plotted

1001
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:09,910
under the DOJ with their approval to

1002
00:49:13,650 --> 00:49:12,130
investigate the families of activists so

1003
00:49:15,270 --> 00:49:13,660
I knew it wasn't a violent threat

1004
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:15,280
I knew it didn't violate the statue so

1005
00:49:18,750 --> 00:49:17,530
when those charges came I was still you

1006
00:49:21,330 --> 00:49:18,760
know like well you know there's there's

1007
00:49:24,330 --> 00:49:21,340
plenty of I can get out of this but know

1008
00:49:25,530 --> 00:49:24,340
that the FBI after those first charges

1009
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:25,540
about a month after you know obviously I

1010
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:27,130
was in jail this whole time they did

1011
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:28,570
approach my first attorney who was a

1012
00:49:34,230 --> 00:49:31,810
public defender and said that if he you

1013
00:49:35,940 --> 00:49:34,240
know tell him that if he wants any kind

1014
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:35,950
of plea bargain as if he doesn't want to

1015
00:49:39,900 --> 00:49:38,050
go to trial and go do 20 years he's

1016
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:39,910
gonna have to make a deal and I just

1017
00:49:44,430 --> 00:49:43,090
told him no and I got new lawyers in the

1018
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:44,440
process of raising the money for those

1019
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:46,570
lawyers the DOJ then came and tried to

1020
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:49,330
seize that they not only seized the

1021
00:49:52,530 --> 00:49:51,280
money order tried to see somebody that

1022
00:49:54,510 --> 00:49:52,540
they shut it down for a few days and the

1023
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:54,520
judge went Sheila made him give it back

1024
00:49:57,660 --> 00:49:56,290
but in the process they also said

1025
00:49:58,980 --> 00:49:57,670
subpoena - we pay which was the

1026
00:50:01,560 --> 00:49:58,990
crowdsource funding side that was being

1027
00:50:04,410 --> 00:50:01,570
used for my legal fund and they demanded

1028
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:04,420
the identifying information of everyone

1029
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:06,370
who had donated which is well beyond

1030
00:50:09,330 --> 00:50:07,810
their purview it later on they got sued

1031
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:09,340
for that years later when it became

1032
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:11,890
evident but uh so this this was this was

1033
00:50:16,590 --> 00:50:14,770
this was a situation in which some crazy

1034
00:50:18,540 --> 00:50:16,600
new thing would happen every couple

1035
00:50:20,250 --> 00:50:18,550
weeks there was some like a gag order

1036
00:50:22,350 --> 00:50:20,260
there would be accusations from them in

1037
00:50:24,210 --> 00:50:22,360
filings they would they would they

1038
00:50:25,950 --> 00:50:24,220
called my new lawyers before they were

1039
00:50:28,710 --> 00:50:25,960
actually my lawyers and kind of it which

1040
00:50:30,570 --> 00:50:28,720
is something that's not just not done it

1041
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:30,580
was there was always new information and

1042
00:50:34,710 --> 00:50:33,250
new concerns and new threats so it's

1043
00:50:37,020 --> 00:50:34,720
really hard to assess at any given time

1044
00:50:40,650 --> 00:50:37,030
what I was in for now they made one more

1045
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:40,660
offer later on after they had charged me

1046
00:50:44,940 --> 00:50:43,330
with these other I'll let you go into

1047
00:50:47,460 --> 00:50:44,950
this that's were moving forward on that

1048
00:50:50,010 --> 00:50:47,470
one but they did eventually try to get

1049
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:50,020
me to plea to one count of aggravated

1050
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:52,810
identity theft as opposed to the eleven

1051
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:55,210
counts they had hit me with I was facing

1052
00:50:58,890 --> 00:50:56,410
a minimum of twenty two years in prison

1053
00:51:01,860 --> 00:50:58,900
on top of the other charges altogether

1054
00:51:03,420 --> 00:51:01,870
facing 105 years worth of exposure they

1055
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:03,430
offered me two to plea to one of those

1056
00:51:08,820 --> 00:51:05,650
counts of fraud and I turned them down

1057
00:51:09,900 --> 00:51:08,830
because I was I would ever plead a fraud

1058
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:09,910
now I certainly wouldn't plead a fraud

1059
00:51:13,860 --> 00:51:12,610
in that context it was it was had I done

1060
00:51:16,110 --> 00:51:13,870
so they would have been able to

1061
00:51:19,830 --> 00:51:16,120
prosecute anyone who links to stolen

1062
00:51:22,410 --> 00:51:19,840
information in the future so and all of

1063
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:22,420
this sounds so criminal and you were

1064
00:51:28,290 --> 00:51:24,400
just a journalist you know and that's

1065
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:28,300
the other part about it you know being a

1066
00:51:33,170 --> 00:51:30,850
spokesman or not for anonymous really

1067
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:33,180
you know what we're talking about a

1068
00:51:39,870 --> 00:51:36,130
journalist with the career that was

1069
00:51:41,730 --> 00:51:39,880
doing these things to disrupt but

1070
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:41,740
ultimately that is what we're talking

1071
00:51:45,870 --> 00:51:43,570
about here but they wanted to make this

1072
00:51:47,130 --> 00:51:45,880
into something that it wasn't and that's

1073
00:51:50,910 --> 00:51:47,140
exactly what they do

1074
00:51:52,860 --> 00:51:50,920
was it looking back did they ever scare

1075
00:51:55,620 --> 00:51:52,870
you did they intimidate you with these

1076
00:51:58,620 --> 00:51:55,630
with these charges and with these you

1077
00:52:01,020 --> 00:51:58,630
know a sensory and prison kind of thing

1078
00:52:04,620 --> 00:52:01,030
Oh certainly I mean I spent two and a

1079
00:52:05,970 --> 00:52:04,630
half years in pretrial and detention but

1080
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:05,980
there's plenty of time to think oh my

1081
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:09,010
just my overestimating my abilities here

1082
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:10,210
have I gotten into something

1083
00:52:14,089 --> 00:52:12,250
that I can't get out of right plenty of

1084
00:52:18,589 --> 00:52:14,099
time to reflect on that but ultimately

1085
00:52:21,180 --> 00:52:18,599
we developed a plan that would not only

1086
00:52:23,460 --> 00:52:21,190
hopefully get me out of prison and at

1087
00:52:26,010 --> 00:52:23,470
some point in the in the medium future

1088
00:52:27,030 --> 00:52:26,020
but also finish our work bring a great

1089
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:27,040
deal more of attention to these

1090
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:30,010
companies essentially use the DOJ for

1091
00:52:33,180 --> 00:52:31,690
that end as an obviously everything they

1092
00:52:35,010 --> 00:52:33,190
did was another opportunity to go out

1093
00:52:36,570 --> 00:52:35,020
there and say here's the search warrant

1094
00:52:38,130 --> 00:52:36,580
listing these firms these are the firms

1095
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:38,140
that Barrett Brown was investigating and

1096
00:52:43,349 --> 00:52:40,450
wrote about and in some cases exposed

1097
00:52:44,550 --> 00:52:43,359
their private programs this is what they

1098
00:52:46,500 --> 00:52:44,560
were after him for this is what the

1099
00:52:48,420 --> 00:52:46,510
search warrants actually say these other

1100
00:52:49,740 --> 00:52:48,430
things are red herrings and that's okay

1101
00:52:51,270 --> 00:52:49,750
sense and so hey we were effective

1102
00:52:53,099 --> 00:52:51,280
enough in that that everyone from the

1103
00:52:53,490 --> 00:52:53,109
New York Times New York Times ran to op

1104
00:52:55,170 --> 00:52:53,500
eds

1105
00:52:58,410 --> 00:52:55,180
both saying you know this is Cali to our

1106
00:53:00,420 --> 00:52:58,420
charges Washington Times that mainstream

1107
00:53:03,900 --> 00:53:00,430
outlets that again normally are not very

1108
00:53:05,220 --> 00:53:03,910
good on picking up on these nuances this

1109
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:05,230
time they did pick it up and so

1110
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:08,290
ultimately we put a pretty big dent in

1111
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:11,290
their credibility and I think open to

1112
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:12,690
wide open the window a little bit wider

1113
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:15,010
towards these intelligence apparatus and

1114
00:53:18,690 --> 00:53:16,960
of course by that time Snowden you know

1115
00:53:20,370 --> 00:53:18,700
while I was still in jail Snowden came

1116
00:53:22,140 --> 00:53:20,380
out and that change the conversation

1117
00:53:23,700 --> 00:53:22,150
further so all in all was a pretty good

1118
00:53:26,660 --> 00:53:23,710
couple of years for an intelligence

1119
00:53:29,790 --> 00:53:26,670
contracting journalism now and there is

1120
00:53:30,990 --> 00:53:29,800
also to clear things up let's put

1121
00:53:34,410 --> 00:53:31,000
something on the record I want the

1122
00:53:36,930 --> 00:53:34,420
audience to understand ultimately what

1123
00:53:39,180 --> 00:53:36,940
came down here what which was Stratfor

1124
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:39,190
which wasn't in the original set of

1125
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:41,650
charges but that's ultimately which you

1126
00:53:45,630 --> 00:53:44,050
were convicted on correct right so what

1127
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:45,640
happened was we had these hackers and

1128
00:53:48,540 --> 00:53:46,960
Anonymous had originally hacked these

1129
00:53:50,190 --> 00:53:48,550
other companies HBGary and all that and

1130
00:53:51,660 --> 00:53:50,200
we exposed a bunch of stuff and those

1131
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:51,670
were really the the emails they took

1132
00:53:55,890 --> 00:53:53,650
from that company which had claimed it

1133
00:53:58,260 --> 00:53:55,900
could identify our secret leadership you

1134
00:54:00,690 --> 00:53:58,270
know quote-unquote the emails that they

1135
00:54:03,530 --> 00:54:00,700
took were instrumental in flooring

1136
00:54:06,390 --> 00:54:03,540
several very bizarre plots including uh

1137
00:54:08,940 --> 00:54:06,400
attacks on Wikileaks the setting up of

1138
00:54:10,230 --> 00:54:08,950
activists on fraud charges DDoS attacks

1139
00:54:12,270 --> 00:54:10,240
with the same source that our nons

1140
00:54:14,910 --> 00:54:12,280
yet rated for and arrested and charged

1141
00:54:16,620 --> 00:54:14,920
for all the time and then later on eight

1142
00:54:18,870 --> 00:54:16,630
months later so well we're now in now

1143
00:54:20,609 --> 00:54:18,880
focused on these companies there's

1144
00:54:22,230 --> 00:54:20,619
another hack that Jeremy Hammond another

1145
00:54:24,150 --> 00:54:22,240
anonymous hacker is involved in and that

1146
00:54:26,460 --> 00:54:24,160
some of the people

1147
00:54:28,830 --> 00:54:26,470
in my project PM group were also aware

1148
00:54:30,380 --> 00:54:28,840
of and that was a hack of Stratford

1149
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:30,390
which is a firm in Austin that that

1150
00:54:34,260 --> 00:54:32,410
supposedly you know was in the business

1151
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:34,270
of providing sort of risk assessment to

1152
00:54:38,430 --> 00:54:36,850
their high-end clientele that sort of

1153
00:54:40,590 --> 00:54:38,440
thing it turns out based on the emails

1154
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:40,600
that stolen this time and later give

1155
00:54:46,380 --> 00:54:43,330
them to WikiLeaks that's this firm was

1156
00:54:48,330 --> 00:54:46,390
spying for instance on activists in

1157
00:54:51,150 --> 00:54:48,340
Bhopal India who were trying to get

1158
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:51,160
Union Carbide to pay more restitution to

1159
00:54:55,770 --> 00:54:54,010
the people that they had maimed or left

1160
00:54:58,170 --> 00:54:55,780
family members dead in the nineteen

1161
00:55:00,180 --> 00:54:58,180
eighty you know Bhopal disaster the Dale

1162
00:55:02,070 --> 00:55:00,190
chemical deal that sort of thing they

1163
00:55:04,380 --> 00:55:02,080
were collaborating with the FBI against

1164
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:04,390
private citizens that the FBI was giving

1165
00:55:09,150 --> 00:55:07,690
their files to this private company at

1166
00:55:12,060 --> 00:55:09,160
the behest of their clients like

1167
00:55:14,130 --> 00:55:12,070
coca-cola for instance just very bizarre

1168
00:55:16,170 --> 00:55:14,140
stuff all you know any any one of which

1169
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:16,180
these stories I think should have been

1170
00:55:21,630 --> 00:55:18,610
an eye-opener for people but anyway so

1171
00:55:22,890 --> 00:55:21,640
that that that hack was what they

1172
00:55:24,870 --> 00:55:22,900
originally decided to charge me in

1173
00:55:27,660 --> 00:55:24,880
connection with and you know at first

1174
00:55:30,030 --> 00:55:27,670
they charged me with having copied and

1175
00:55:32,010 --> 00:55:30,040
pasted a link that Jeremy Hammond had

1176
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:32,020
posted into one of these anonymous chat

1177
00:55:36,060 --> 00:55:34,570
servers where we do all this work I had

1178
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:36,070
copied the link pasted it into my

1179
00:55:40,140 --> 00:55:38,050
project PM IRC Internet Relay Chat

1180
00:55:41,580 --> 00:55:40,150
server for my journalists researchers to

1181
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:41,590
look at thinking it was some of the

1182
00:55:43,830 --> 00:55:42,130
emails

1183
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:43,840
mm-hm and it turned out those are credit

1184
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:45,490
card numbers and and as you can see from

1185
00:55:48,810 --> 00:55:46,810
the transcript which was part of the

1186
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:48,820
court record it was pretty clear that I

1187
00:55:52,890 --> 00:55:50,530
didn't know those credit card numbers I

1188
00:55:54,210 --> 00:55:52,900
asked him what was in those uh you know

1189
00:55:55,980 --> 00:55:54,220
he says ellic right he says it's like B

1190
00:55:58,020 --> 00:55:55,990
and C something like some jargon I'm

1191
00:56:00,090 --> 00:55:58,030
like okay whatever government forensics

1192
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:00,100
show I never opened the file they were

1193
00:56:03,270 --> 00:56:02,170
already anyways it was just it was one

1194
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:03,280
of those things where they just they had

1195
00:56:05,940 --> 00:56:04,690
they had to charge me of something and

1196
00:56:07,740 --> 00:56:05,950
they know that even if it's untenable

1197
00:56:09,570 --> 00:56:07,750
and of course they had to drop all those

1198
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:09,580
charges all 11 of those counts for a

1199
00:56:13,890 --> 00:56:12,880
number of reasons but you know imogen

1200
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:13,900
selling to charge me with now eventually

1201
00:56:18,510 --> 00:56:16,690
what I pled to after after they had to

1202
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:18,520
drop those charges which was a real

1203
00:56:22,590 --> 00:56:20,530
embarrassment to them because of the

1204
00:56:24,870 --> 00:56:22,600
centerpiece of their case they want to

1205
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:24,880
be a plea to something uh something in

1206
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:27,850
connection with you know the year of

1207
00:56:32,100 --> 00:56:29,890
accurate anonymous so what I pled to was

1208
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:32,110
accessory after the fact of the Stratfor

1209
00:56:35,550 --> 00:56:34,330
hack because what I did was when then

1210
00:56:37,530 --> 00:56:35,560
that when the hack had initially

1211
00:56:37,829 --> 00:56:37,540
occurred and when Jeremy Hammond and a

1212
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:37,839
few other

1213
00:56:42,299 --> 00:56:40,210
people were debating about what to do

1214
00:56:44,519 --> 00:56:42,309
with these emails they had taken a

1215
00:56:46,049 --> 00:56:44,529
couple of us for arguing that you don't

1216
00:56:47,190 --> 00:56:46,059
dump them online we don't know what's in

1217
00:56:48,569 --> 00:56:47,200
them there could be information in there

1218
00:56:50,999 --> 00:56:48,579
that could get someone hurts perhaps

1219
00:56:53,999 --> 00:56:51,009
informants under a foreign dictatorship

1220
00:56:56,759 --> 00:56:54,009
you know who spoke to them and so I

1221
00:56:59,309 --> 00:56:56,769
called the company Stratford called its

1222
00:57:01,410 --> 00:56:59,319
executives on the phone and offered to

1223
00:57:03,839 --> 00:57:01,420
handle any redactions that needed to be

1224
00:57:07,529 --> 00:57:03,849
made if these emails were to indeed be

1225
00:57:10,079 --> 00:57:07,539
dumped online and that is ultimately

1226
00:57:11,819 --> 00:57:10,089
what's and it's something that the DOJ

1227
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:11,829
never mentioned it earlier filings but

1228
00:57:15,569 --> 00:57:13,690
by the time we got into this two-year

1229
00:57:18,989 --> 00:57:15,579
process of them having to drop all these

1230
00:57:21,029 --> 00:57:18,999
charges that was enough for them so when

1231
00:57:23,759 --> 00:57:21,039
you hear people who are national

1232
00:57:25,380 --> 00:57:23,769
security enthusiasts talk about how

1233
00:57:28,109 --> 00:57:25,390
their big concern is that is that people

1234
00:57:29,579 --> 00:57:28,119
might get hurt from these dumps keep in

1235
00:57:31,109 --> 00:57:29,589
mind that's what I tried to do I tried

1236
00:57:32,370 --> 00:57:31,119
to rectify that and that's what they

1237
00:57:34,229 --> 00:57:32,380
used against me they don't really care

1238
00:57:36,329 --> 00:57:34,239
if someone gets killed over this they

1239
00:57:39,029 --> 00:57:36,339
it's helpful to them it helps make their

1240
00:57:41,099 --> 00:57:39,039
case and helps helps them argue for for

1241
00:57:43,049 --> 00:57:41,109
more classification now we're gonna head

1242
00:57:44,099 --> 00:57:43,059
towards a break here in about 90 seconds

1243
00:57:48,859 --> 00:57:44,109
so I'll see if I can get a quick answer

1244
00:57:52,289 --> 00:57:48,869
out of you it to me and to others the

1245
00:57:56,249 --> 00:57:52,299
Stratfor hack and the way that it was

1246
00:57:59,940 --> 00:57:56,259
done was really a sting operation wasn't

1247
00:58:01,140 --> 00:57:59,950
it wasn't it more like entrapment it was

1248
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:01,150
it was something that had actually

1249
00:58:04,650 --> 00:58:02,650
initiated with some some run-of-the-mill

1250
00:58:06,239 --> 00:58:04,660
criminal hackers I think out of Eastern

1251
00:58:08,249 --> 00:58:06,249
Europe and they had taken control of the

1252
00:58:10,799 --> 00:58:08,259
server secretly at some point and then

1253
00:58:12,690 --> 00:58:10,809
at some point that control was handed

1254
00:58:14,910 --> 00:58:12,700
over in parts to other people who missed

1255
00:58:16,079 --> 00:58:14,920
and that made a wait way to anonymous so

1256
00:58:17,370 --> 00:58:16,089
there were several people including

1257
00:58:19,259 --> 00:58:17,380
myself who knew that Stratford was

1258
00:58:21,239 --> 00:58:19,269
compromised right one of the people who

1259
00:58:23,130 --> 00:58:21,249
knew it was Sabu Hector monsignore who

1260
00:58:24,779 --> 00:58:23,140
was one of the major Anonymous hackers

1261
00:58:26,339 --> 00:58:24,789
who had been involved in these previous

1262
00:58:29,519 --> 00:58:26,349
hacks that had killed all these emails

1263
00:58:31,950 --> 00:58:29,529
and who unbeknownst to us had been

1264
00:58:35,819 --> 00:58:31,960
secretly discovered found identified and

1265
00:58:37,559 --> 00:58:35,829
turned by the FBI seven months prior so

1266
00:58:39,930 --> 00:58:37,569
this strapped for hack and everything

1267
00:58:42,450 --> 00:58:39,940
else that SOB you presided over was

1268
00:58:45,959 --> 00:58:42,460
allowed to happen by the FBI and that is

1269
00:58:48,029 --> 00:58:45,969
the that's the part that's the bite that

1270
00:58:50,759 --> 00:58:48,039
that is that's the real criminal

1271
00:58:51,540 --> 00:58:50,769
activity here and it's something that

1272
00:58:56,130 --> 00:58:51,550
has

1273
00:58:58,140 --> 00:58:56,140
it's discussed but not exploited I'm

1274
00:59:01,080 --> 00:58:58,150
sorry I had to say that word but it's

1275
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:01,090
really the true part about this Sabu

1276
00:59:06,330 --> 00:59:03,690
this was entrapment it was entrapment

1277
00:59:09,390 --> 00:59:06,340
through and through there wasn't any way

1278
00:59:12,410 --> 00:59:09,400
to well obviously there wasn't but

1279
00:59:15,330 --> 00:59:12,420
wasn't there a legal way looking back -

1280
00:59:17,510 --> 00:59:15,340
to take advantage of the entrapment part

1281
00:59:19,980 --> 00:59:17,520
of this and have all of this go away

1282
00:59:21,210 --> 00:59:19,990
there were all sorts of things very much

1283
00:59:23,550 --> 00:59:21,220
like that I mean you're absolutely right

1284
00:59:24,990 --> 00:59:23,560
that and several other aspects including

1285
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:25,000
information they concealed from my

1286
00:59:29,730 --> 00:59:26,410
lawyers and which ended up in the press

1287
00:59:31,740 --> 00:59:29,740
after I was sentenced showing showing

1288
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:31,750
again that I had no intention of you

1289
00:59:37,770 --> 00:59:35,170
know of losing credit card numbers that

1290
00:59:38,850 --> 00:59:37,780
should have been introduced we had a

1291
00:59:39,990 --> 00:59:38,860
legal team that involved several

1292
00:59:42,780 --> 00:59:40,000
different people who did not necessarily

1293
00:59:44,340 --> 00:59:42,790
mesh well and some things that were you

1294
00:59:46,170 --> 00:59:44,350
know pretty major were actually lost in

1295
00:59:48,690 --> 00:59:46,180
the cracks and I tried to bring up a lot

1296
00:59:50,070 --> 00:59:48,700
of them myself in my allocution when I

1297
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:50,080
spoke to the judge for ten minutes of

1298
00:59:52,710 --> 00:59:52,090
made public well you know that's just

1299
00:59:54,060 --> 00:59:52,720
not enough

1300
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:54,070
and this judge in particular was just

1301
00:59:58,530 --> 00:59:56,770
not he was not terribly fastidious about

1302
01:00:00,270 --> 00:59:58,540
making sure that we're doing things by

1303
01:00:01,890 --> 01:00:00,280
the book that's not unusual among

1304
01:00:05,430 --> 01:00:01,900
federal judges unfortunately yeah the

1305
01:00:06,990 --> 01:00:05,440
crime was allowed to happen if the FBI

1306
01:00:10,770 --> 01:00:07,000
we're gonna take a break right here but

1307
01:00:12,450 --> 01:00:10,780
if the FBI was really on the up-and-up

1308
01:00:15,330 --> 01:00:12,460
and honest which they're not of course

1309
01:00:17,780 --> 01:00:15,340
but they would not have allowed the

1310
01:00:20,010 --> 01:00:17,790
crime to happen and allow all of these

1311
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:20,020
individuals to go to prison it's in an

1312
01:00:24,450 --> 01:00:21,930
incredible situation our guest tonight

1313
01:00:26,490 --> 01:00:24,460
Barrett Brown this is fade to black a

1314
01:00:28,500 --> 01:00:26,500
very special failure tonight we're gonna

1315
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:28,510
continue this discussion when we come

1316
01:00:31,650 --> 01:00:29,890
back after this short break I'm your

1317
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:31,660
host Jimmy Church more with Barrett

1318
01:00:43,430 --> 01:00:34,290
right after this stay with us

1319
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:46,160
[Music]

1320
01:00:50,130 --> 01:00:48,010
this is fade to black

1321
01:00:53,820 --> 01:00:50,140
with Jimmy Church on the game changer

1322
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:53,830
radio network and kgr a the global radio

1323
01:00:58,920 --> 01:00:55,650
alliance

1324
01:01:02,280 --> 01:00:58,930
this is kera digital broadcasting

1325
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:02,290
station Salt Lake City Utah Van Buren

1326
01:01:06,690 --> 01:01:04,570
Arkansas does your basement or

1327
01:01:08,460 --> 01:01:06,700
crawlspace have a damp musty smell well

1328
01:01:10,620 --> 01:01:08,470
watch out that's a sign of too much

1329
01:01:12,450 --> 01:01:10,630
moisture and not enough ventilation and

1330
01:01:14,550 --> 01:01:12,460
that can mean increased mold growth and

1331
01:01:16,830 --> 01:01:14,560
the build-up of harmful toxins and gases

1332
01:01:18,990 --> 01:01:16,840
don't bother with a dehumidifier it just

1333
01:01:20,790 --> 01:01:19,000
circulates the same unhealthy air now

1334
01:01:22,650 --> 01:01:20,800
there's a better way to remove these

1335
01:01:25,050 --> 01:01:22,660
dangers and odors it's with the

1336
01:01:26,849 --> 01:01:25,060
computerized wave moisture control unit

1337
01:01:28,470 --> 01:01:26,859
that reduces moisture and expels

1338
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:28,480
pollutants we replaced our old

1339
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:30,490
dehumidifier with the wave unit and in

1340
01:01:35,130 --> 01:01:32,770
only three weeks our basement is dry and

1341
01:01:37,109 --> 01:01:35,140
the musty smell is gone wave units

1342
01:01:39,540 --> 01:01:37,119
require no maintenance no buckets of

1343
01:01:41,460 --> 01:01:39,550
water or filters and costs only pennies

1344
01:01:43,260 --> 01:01:41,470
a day to run breathe better live

1345
01:01:45,660 --> 01:01:43,270
healthier with an affordable no

1346
01:01:48,030 --> 01:01:45,670
maintenance wave unit call eight eight

1347
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:48,040
eight seven one seven way eight eight

1348
01:01:52,810 --> 01:01:57,829
try a home comm

1349
01:02:10,190 --> 01:01:59,930
homes of the shots

1350
01:02:14,700 --> 01:02:12,810
hi this is Ray Psalms here repping the

1351
01:02:17,700 --> 01:02:14,710
planet and you're listening to my good

1352
01:02:20,220 --> 01:02:17,710
friend Jimmy Church fade to black

1353
01:02:24,810 --> 01:02:20,230
on the game changer network and the kgr

1354
01:02:26,970 --> 01:02:24,820
a digital broadcast station this is Toby

1355
01:02:44,839 --> 01:02:26,980
Kebbell you're listening to Jimmy Church

1356
01:02:49,410 --> 01:02:47,700
revolution this is Micah Hanks of the

1357
01:02:51,900 --> 01:02:49,420
graylien report and you're listening to

1358
01:02:53,730 --> 01:02:51,910
Jimmy church on fade to black across the

1359
01:02:56,370 --> 01:02:53,740
globe on the GameChanger radio network

1360
01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:56,380
and the one and only kgr a radio the

1361
01:03:16,990 --> 01:02:57,410
planet

1362
01:03:21,460 --> 01:03:19,360
all right welcome back fade to black I

1363
01:03:24,390 --> 01:03:21,470
miss Jimmy Church very special fader

1364
01:03:26,590 --> 01:03:24,400
night tonight we have Barrett Brown here

1365
01:03:31,090 --> 01:03:26,600
we're gonna open up the phone lines at

1366
01:03:33,670 --> 01:03:31,100
the bottom of the hour 3 2 3 a 2 5 5 0 4

1367
01:03:35,890 --> 01:03:33,680
5 so get ready for that I'm not opening

1368
01:03:37,420 --> 01:03:35,900
up the phone lines yet so don't start

1369
01:03:38,170 --> 01:03:37,430
dialing but we'll do that at the bottom

1370
01:03:41,610 --> 01:03:38,180
of the hour

1371
01:03:44,950 --> 01:03:41,620
and Barrett okay

1372
01:03:47,860 --> 01:03:44,960
prisons behind you you're walking out

1373
01:03:49,570 --> 01:03:47,870
you've got your your bags your you're

1374
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:49,580
walking out of prison your mom is there

1375
01:03:57,670 --> 01:03:54,410
to greet you as you left and that door

1376
01:04:00,160 --> 01:03:57,680
closes behind you what went through your

1377
01:04:02,380 --> 01:04:00,170
mind at that point okay that really

1378
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:02,390
sucked I'm never coming back I'm

1379
01:04:06,700 --> 01:04:04,850
reformed did that thought go through

1380
01:04:08,260 --> 01:04:06,710
your mind I mean what as you were

1381
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:08,270
walking up to your mom what were you

1382
01:04:15,190 --> 01:04:13,010
thinking about assumed that I think the

1383
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:15,200
the prison was prison staff themselves

1384
01:04:21,460 --> 01:04:17,570
were pretty certain that they'd see me

1385
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:21,470
again some day and you know I've uh I

1386
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:23,770
was I was I had already been on record

1387
01:04:28,060 --> 01:04:26,450
doing interviews from prison about what

1388
01:04:30,910 --> 01:04:28,070
I would be doing when I left and that of

1389
01:04:36,430 --> 01:04:30,920
course was uh was starting a pursuance

1390
01:04:39,340 --> 01:04:36,440
project and and the the emotional part

1391
01:04:41,140 --> 01:04:39,350
of of seeing your parents again we're

1392
01:04:42,580 --> 01:04:41,150
gonna move on from this right now but I

1393
01:04:45,430 --> 01:04:42,590
would just want to get inside of your

1394
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:45,440
mind because when you're in prison

1395
01:04:51,970 --> 01:04:50,090
for for that length of time now being

1396
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:51,980
you know free while you're on your way

1397
01:04:58,470 --> 01:04:53,810
to a halfway house you're not exactly

1398
01:05:03,010 --> 01:04:58,480
free but what was that like did did you

1399
01:05:06,910 --> 01:05:03,020
have any issues with reality I mean

1400
01:05:08,590 --> 01:05:06,920
because now you can do things like walk

1401
01:05:11,530 --> 01:05:08,600
around and change your mind and not have

1402
01:05:14,140 --> 01:05:11,540
somebody around you and and and and the

1403
01:05:18,310 --> 01:05:14,150
confinement part you're free again does

1404
01:05:20,380 --> 01:05:18,320
that take a little bit of adjusting yeah

1405
01:05:21,700 --> 01:05:20,390
readjusting back to civilian life was

1406
01:05:24,370 --> 01:05:21,710
harder than adjusted to prison in the

1407
01:05:26,530 --> 01:05:24,380
first place I can only imagine I can

1408
01:05:29,650 --> 01:05:26,540
only imagine that there was a shot of

1409
01:05:30,370 --> 01:05:29,660
you and where you guys stopped at like a

1410
01:05:31,570 --> 01:05:30,380
truck stop

1411
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:31,580
or something when you were driving to

1412
01:05:37,750 --> 01:05:36,290
the halfway house and you were like in a

1413
01:05:38,590 --> 01:05:37,760
bathroom I think you know what I'm

1414
01:05:43,660 --> 01:05:38,600
talking about

1415
01:05:47,590 --> 01:05:43,670
but I it looked to me like you were you

1416
01:05:49,210 --> 01:05:47,600
were right there like wow okay hey you

1417
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:49,220
weren't comfortable I guess it's the

1418
01:05:54,490 --> 01:05:51,050
best way to put it you weren't were you

1419
01:05:56,380 --> 01:05:54,500
oh no not at all for one thing we had we

1420
01:05:58,960 --> 01:05:56,390
had a certain amount of time to get to

1421
01:06:00,910 --> 01:05:58,970
get from the border of Mexico

1422
01:06:03,310 --> 01:06:00,920
well my prison was in South Texas to

1423
01:06:05,500 --> 01:06:03,320
Dallas and they originally did not give

1424
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:05,510
us sufficient time and I happen to know

1425
01:06:08,980 --> 01:06:06,890
from talking other inmates that they

1426
01:06:11,500 --> 01:06:08,990
will put out another warrant for you if

1427
01:06:12,790 --> 01:06:11,510
you are late and unaccounted for at that

1428
01:06:14,140 --> 01:06:12,800
halfway house so I adverse tried to

1429
01:06:16,300 --> 01:06:14,150
argue for more time that we would have

1430
01:06:19,030 --> 01:06:16,310
seven hours to drive this thing that

1431
01:06:20,380 --> 01:06:19,040
takes about seven hours and you know we

1432
01:06:23,620 --> 01:06:20,390
were there making a documentary about

1433
01:06:27,220 --> 01:06:23,630
meantime so we had a lot you know lots

1434
01:06:29,950 --> 01:06:27,230
of worry about and having said that just

1435
01:06:32,380 --> 01:06:29,960
in general that the halfway house I was

1436
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:32,390
not excited about that and I actually

1437
01:06:35,290 --> 01:06:33,890
considered staying in prison for the

1438
01:06:36,940 --> 01:06:35,300
last six months rather than take that

1439
01:06:38,380 --> 01:06:36,950
halfway house time reason they gave me

1440
01:06:39,370 --> 01:06:38,390
so much halfway house time which is six

1441
01:06:41,590 --> 01:06:39,380
months is actually put unusual these

1442
01:06:43,180 --> 01:06:41,600
days is to get me out of there because I

1443
01:06:46,330 --> 01:06:43,190
was filing a lot of administrative

1444
01:06:48,490 --> 01:06:46,340
remedies but administrative remedy forms

1445
01:06:50,770 --> 01:06:48,500
based on due process violations

1446
01:06:52,090 --> 01:06:50,780
obviously I was writing a column that

1447
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:52,100
was pretty popular and what the National

1448
01:06:56,980 --> 01:06:54,170
Magazine Award about that prison and

1449
01:06:59,710 --> 01:06:56,990
about the DOP in general so they didn't

1450
01:07:00,940 --> 01:06:59,720
want me there but you know the halfway

1451
01:07:03,100 --> 01:07:00,950
house yeah if you got a whole nother

1452
01:07:06,790 --> 01:07:03,110
thing and now it's you know you it

1453
01:07:08,530 --> 01:07:06,800
doesn't have the same charms as prison

1454
01:07:14,260 --> 01:07:08,540
halfway house I'll tell you that there's

1455
01:07:19,570 --> 01:07:14,270
the same charms okay Wow okay

1456
01:07:22,780 --> 01:07:19,580
okay now let's let's go to today since

1457
01:07:26,310 --> 01:07:22,790
your release which was November 2016 the

1458
01:07:29,230 --> 01:07:26,320
you have seen this country go through

1459
01:07:31,900 --> 01:07:29,240
the world goes who through some crazy

1460
01:07:36,010 --> 01:07:31,910
things with not only internet privacy

1461
01:07:41,509 --> 01:07:36,020
certainly WikiLeaks and and emails data

1462
01:07:44,719 --> 01:07:41,519
mining fake news crazy controlled

1463
01:07:47,269 --> 01:07:44,729
lism with an agenda all of the things

1464
01:07:52,759 --> 01:07:47,279
that you had warned us about in your

1465
01:07:53,809 --> 01:07:52,769
writings leading up to 2016 here we are

1466
01:07:56,689 --> 01:07:53,819
today

1467
01:07:58,189 --> 01:07:56,699
what does anything surprise you right

1468
01:08:02,479 --> 01:07:58,199
now where we are with the internet

1469
01:08:06,409 --> 01:08:02,489
privacy journalism mass media and fake

1470
01:08:07,939 --> 01:08:06,419
news I'm mostly the one thing that keeps

1471
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:07,949
surprising me is the extent to which

1472
01:08:13,249 --> 01:08:11,130
people have just given up on nuance it's

1473
01:08:15,589 --> 01:08:13,259
very difficult for me to make an

1474
01:08:19,459 --> 01:08:15,599
argument that someone look at and Wrekin

1475
01:08:22,370 --> 01:08:19,469
and believe is on route to another

1476
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:22,380
arguments as in if I say look the FBI's

1477
01:08:27,589 --> 01:08:24,210
corrupt look at this people think that

1478
01:08:30,079 --> 01:08:27,599
I'm supporting Trump if I say the exact

1479
01:08:32,899 --> 01:08:30,089
table if I say you know something on the

1480
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:32,909
exact opposite of the party line people

1481
01:08:37,299 --> 01:08:34,650
will just take that extrapolate from it

1482
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:37,309
so it's very hard to say look you know

1483
01:08:43,789 --> 01:08:40,170
these these organizations the DOJ the

1484
01:08:45,919 --> 01:08:43,799
FBI the CIA we should not be we should

1485
01:08:47,269 --> 01:08:45,929
not be cozying up to them regardless of

1486
01:08:48,950 --> 01:08:47,279
what you know what you think of the

1487
01:08:51,499 --> 01:08:48,960
investigation these are not

1488
01:08:53,749 --> 01:08:51,509
fundamentally sound groups they never

1489
01:08:55,279 --> 01:08:53,759
really have been they've different so

1490
01:08:57,470 --> 01:08:55,289
it's it's people have become I think

1491
01:08:58,849 --> 01:08:57,480
more intellectually dishonest I think I

1492
01:09:03,379 --> 01:08:58,859
think obviously people have gotten the

1493
01:09:05,539 --> 01:09:03,389
opportunity to avoid reasons criticism

1494
01:09:07,069 --> 01:09:05,549
of their positions by going online and

1495
01:09:09,289 --> 01:09:07,079
just reading you know a certain array of

1496
01:09:11,269 --> 01:09:09,299
people who think like them and they have

1497
01:09:14,779 --> 01:09:11,279
they have not availed themselves to the

1498
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:14,789
opportunity to to look at look at all

1499
01:09:18,259 --> 01:09:16,650
the facts and judge both positions on

1500
01:09:19,309 --> 01:09:18,269
any issue before making up their mind

1501
01:09:21,919 --> 01:09:19,319
and that's that selling it was already

1502
01:09:24,349 --> 01:09:21,929
happening but the extent to which that's

1503
01:09:27,019 --> 01:09:24,359
gotten worse that that's what's

1504
01:09:30,259 --> 01:09:27,029
horrified me most it seems to have

1505
01:09:34,220 --> 01:09:30,269
happened pretty quickly now it built up

1506
01:09:36,890 --> 01:09:34,230
to this point for Ford you know a couple

1507
01:09:39,249 --> 01:09:36,900
of decades but certainly the divisive

1508
01:09:42,740 --> 01:09:39,259
'no sand the effectiveness of of

1509
01:09:45,740 --> 01:09:42,750
different media platforms out there with

1510
01:09:49,430 --> 01:09:45,750
the internet to divide and caused this

1511
01:09:51,740 --> 01:09:49,440
anger in and the anger now is everywhere

1512
01:09:54,740 --> 01:09:51,750
is there a way to pull it back and get

1513
01:09:55,430 --> 01:09:54,750
everybody back on the same page no I

1514
01:09:57,770 --> 01:09:55,440
don't think there is

1515
01:09:59,479 --> 01:09:57,780
I think I think we were ill served by

1516
01:10:01,280 --> 01:09:59,489
all the rhetoric about this being one

1517
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:01,290
nation and we're all you know deep down

1518
01:10:04,939 --> 01:10:03,090
where we have fundamental things in

1519
01:10:06,410 --> 01:10:04,949
common we really don't there's this is a

1520
01:10:08,060 --> 01:10:06,420
fractured nation and there's no reason

1521
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:08,070
to expect that it shouldn't be there

1522
01:10:11,060 --> 01:10:09,449
there are not fundamentals in which

1523
01:10:13,939 --> 01:10:11,070
everyone agrees on it's just not the

1524
01:10:18,020 --> 01:10:13,949
case and so I think the best strategy

1525
01:10:19,220 --> 01:10:18,030
going forward is for those people who

1526
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:19,230
agree on these sort of open society

1527
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:21,570
ideas in general they're to oppose the

1528
01:10:24,350 --> 01:10:22,770
surveillance state oppose the police

1529
01:10:27,290 --> 01:10:24,360
state sort of things of that nature

1530
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:27,300
should work together more efficiently

1531
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:30,690
figure out how they can address their

1532
01:10:35,780 --> 01:10:32,130
fundamentals and how they organize how

1533
01:10:38,540 --> 01:10:35,790
they how they try to affect change and

1534
01:10:41,510 --> 01:10:38,550
just sort of prepare prepare for

1535
01:10:44,090 --> 01:10:41,520
whatever may happen the the warnings

1536
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:44,100
were there right the warnings were there

1537
01:10:53,780 --> 01:10:50,250
like 1984 brave new world and we all

1538
01:10:55,820 --> 01:10:53,790
knew that this day could arrive but we

1539
01:10:58,400 --> 01:10:55,830
considered it brilliant writing and

1540
01:11:01,880 --> 01:10:58,410
science fiction I don't think anybody is

1541
01:11:05,150 --> 01:11:01,890
surprised where we are today that we are

1542
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:05,160
here but we indeed are and these things

1543
01:11:10,580 --> 01:11:08,130
have come to pass and it seems like

1544
01:11:14,090 --> 01:11:10,590
nobody wants to do anything about it

1545
01:11:17,900 --> 01:11:14,100
well except for yourself and and me I I

1546
01:11:19,850 --> 01:11:17,910
don't I don't get it why everybody was

1547
01:11:20,570 --> 01:11:19,860
aware of it but now they don't want to

1548
01:11:23,510 --> 01:11:20,580
do anything

1549
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:23,520
I think civic virtue whether it be the

1550
01:11:29,870 --> 01:11:25,170
forms that we may agree with or disagree

1551
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:29,880
with you know just the impulse to act a

1552
01:11:33,530 --> 01:11:32,010
true self risk if necessary that was saw

1553
01:11:35,870 --> 01:11:33,540
it was very much in play in the 60s and

1554
01:11:38,270 --> 01:11:35,880
70s on on both sides whether it be

1555
01:11:40,070 --> 01:11:38,280
Nixon's people or the you know anti-war

1556
01:11:43,189 --> 01:11:40,080
people and so forth people were more

1557
01:11:45,110 --> 01:11:43,199
willing to do unusual adventurous things

1558
01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:45,120
if they thought it was necessary that's

1559
01:11:49,490 --> 01:11:47,520
something that is that is slowly just

1560
01:11:50,870 --> 01:11:49,500
deteriorated in this country as far as I

1561
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:50,880
can tell from you know I was born at 21

1562
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:52,650
so what do I know but from what I can

1563
01:11:55,670 --> 01:11:53,850
tell and from what I can hear from

1564
01:11:57,410 --> 01:11:55,680
people who were around this is a

1565
01:11:59,500 --> 01:11:57,420
different population people are

1566
01:12:02,150 --> 01:11:59,510
different people my age in particular

1567
01:12:05,510 --> 01:12:02,160
you know the internet which I have

1568
01:12:07,310 --> 01:12:05,520
obviously the you know depend upon for

1569
01:12:09,410 --> 01:12:07,320
the things I want to do I think it does

1570
01:12:14,630 --> 01:12:09,420
have a very dilatory effect

1571
01:12:16,790 --> 01:12:14,640
on the adventurism that the the

1572
01:12:19,490 --> 01:12:16,800
adventurism that was the norm back in

1573
01:12:21,740 --> 01:12:19,500
the 18th and 19th centuries and now

1574
01:12:24,860 --> 01:12:21,750
there's another fascinating thing about

1575
01:12:27,830 --> 01:12:24,870
this that not only that you write about

1576
01:12:30,500 --> 01:12:27,840
but I think while becoming very aware is

1577
01:12:33,110 --> 01:12:30,510
that in the 18th and 19th centuries

1578
01:12:37,070 --> 01:12:33,120
certainly going all the way up to the

1579
01:12:40,340 --> 01:12:37,080
80s before the internet it was a slow

1580
01:12:42,740 --> 01:12:40,350
process for change or to affect emotions

1581
01:12:45,290 --> 01:12:42,750
it was it was slow a lot of it was even

1582
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:45,300
word-of-mouth or flyers or magazines and

1583
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:46,170
that kind of thing

1584
01:12:52,970 --> 01:12:50,370
today it is down to nanoseconds where

1585
01:12:55,970 --> 01:12:52,980
you have millions of people that are

1586
01:12:59,060 --> 01:12:55,980
reacting literally at the click of a

1587
01:13:00,890 --> 01:12:59,070
mouse worldwide that is something that

1588
01:13:03,169 --> 01:13:00,900
is completely spun out of control and

1589
01:13:06,229 --> 01:13:03,179
the man and and the media outlets

1590
01:13:11,330 --> 01:13:06,239
understand this it's a nanosecond away

1591
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:11,340
from crazy emotions there are there are

1592
01:13:16,610 --> 01:13:14,610
several just vastly fundamental changes

1593
01:13:18,740 --> 01:13:16,620
of the sort we've never seen this degree

1594
01:13:20,570 --> 01:13:18,750
of that have come into play sort of all

1595
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:20,580
centered around the internet since I was

1596
01:13:23,450 --> 01:13:21,170
born

1597
01:13:25,610 --> 01:13:23,460
historically speaking you know going

1598
01:13:26,780 --> 01:13:25,620
from the 1980s situation where you do

1599
01:13:29,209 --> 01:13:26,790
have you have international phone calls

1600
01:13:31,060 --> 01:13:29,219
and you have letters and all that we're

1601
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:31,070
kind of it ourself a connected world

1602
01:13:37,430 --> 01:13:35,250
going to 15 20 years later it is a

1603
01:13:39,530 --> 01:13:37,440
fundamental difference in the

1604
01:13:41,180 --> 01:13:39,540
environment to have anyone in the world

1605
01:13:42,830 --> 01:13:41,190
be able to collaborate with anyone else

1606
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:42,840
in the world that is something that had

1607
01:13:46,430 --> 01:13:44,130
human history Hubley always had that

1608
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:46,440
power have we had some telepathy whereby

1609
01:13:51,790 --> 01:13:48,330
you could have organized with people in

1610
01:13:53,780 --> 01:13:51,800
China from Britain in 1400 the entire

1611
01:13:55,939 --> 01:13:53,790
obviously the entire history our history

1612
01:13:57,350 --> 01:13:55,949
would be vastly different so suddenly

1613
01:13:59,780 --> 01:13:57,360
this is come into play suddenly this is

1614
01:14:01,160 --> 01:13:59,790
now possible and a lot of people haven't

1615
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:01,170
really thought about what that means

1616
01:14:03,919 --> 01:14:02,850
there are some people who think about it

1617
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:03,929
very much and those are the people at

1618
01:14:08,650 --> 01:14:06,330
DARPA i ARPA some of these companies

1619
01:14:10,970 --> 01:14:08,660
that are sort of given the task of

1620
01:14:12,140 --> 01:14:10,980
managing the government's response to

1621
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:12,150
the things that they think are to come

1622
01:14:19,490 --> 01:14:16,170
down the pike let's talk about what you

1623
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:19,500
are doing now with the pursuance project

1624
01:14:23,070 --> 01:14:21,690
tell us about that because this

1625
01:14:26,460 --> 01:14:23,080
addresses all

1626
01:14:27,900 --> 01:14:26,470
these changes that are possible I mean

1627
01:14:30,630 --> 01:14:27,910
these are basically the issues that I'm

1628
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:30,640
obsessed with at the issues of and the

1629
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:32,410
broad issue of yes now we can now

1630
01:14:35,670 --> 01:14:33,730
collaborate now things are fundamentally

1631
01:14:38,100 --> 01:14:35,680
different the nation-state the

1632
01:14:41,610 --> 01:14:38,110
geographical you know associationism

1633
01:14:42,930 --> 01:14:41,620
that is informed all of our structures

1634
01:14:45,150 --> 01:14:42,940
all of our political institutions they

1635
01:14:47,730 --> 01:14:45,160
all date back from when it made sense to

1636
01:14:49,590 --> 01:14:47,740
work with your neighbors and there was

1637
01:14:50,970 --> 01:14:49,600
no other option and so these these

1638
01:14:52,530 --> 01:14:50,980
institutions they've come into that

1639
01:14:54,660 --> 01:14:52,540
they've continued on to this age and

1640
01:14:55,620 --> 01:14:54,670
they've changed a bit but most of them

1641
01:14:57,750 --> 01:14:55,630
are not capable of changing

1642
01:15:00,030 --> 01:14:57,760
fundamentally and adapting to these new

1643
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:00,040
realities and so you know some of them

1644
01:15:05,100 --> 01:15:01,690
will do better than others in the

1645
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:05,110
meantime those of us who are keen on

1646
01:15:10,470 --> 01:15:07,570
history and are thus worried about what

1647
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:10,480
might be happening soon you know even

1648
01:15:14,310 --> 01:15:11,770
even the things have been going on in

1649
01:15:17,190 --> 01:15:14,320
the last 10 years or so

1650
01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:17,200
I think pales compared to what may very

1651
01:15:22,500 --> 01:15:19,330
well happen the next 20 years and so

1652
01:15:24,510 --> 01:15:22,510
those of us who want who look at it that

1653
01:15:26,220 --> 01:15:24,520
way who think that these are times in

1654
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:26,230
which profound change can occur and

1655
01:15:30,660 --> 01:15:29,290
either will be will be done by others

1656
01:15:34,580 --> 01:15:30,670
who we may disagree with what will be

1657
01:15:37,290 --> 01:15:34,590
done by us we have the responsibility to

1658
01:15:38,550 --> 01:15:37,300
approach this question this key problem

1659
01:15:40,980 --> 01:15:38,560
in 21st century which is how you

1660
01:15:43,860 --> 01:15:40,990
organize large numbers of people that

1661
01:15:46,170 --> 01:15:43,870
you agree with in some basic way and get

1662
01:15:48,330 --> 01:15:46,180
them to act in a way that's not just fun

1663
01:15:49,500 --> 01:15:48,340
and you know histrionic it doesn't

1664
01:15:51,300 --> 01:15:49,510
involve just going the streets and

1665
01:15:55,050 --> 01:15:51,310
shouting and holding sirens but that

1666
01:15:57,120 --> 01:15:55,060
really can grow perpetually while

1667
01:15:59,340 --> 01:15:57,130
refining itself never becoming

1668
01:16:02,490 --> 01:15:59,350
overburdened you know while still being

1669
01:16:04,620 --> 01:16:02,500
able to grow quickly and adapt that's

1670
01:16:06,690 --> 01:16:04,630
what the pursuance system that we're

1671
01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:06,700
building is intended to do for people

1672
01:16:10,410 --> 01:16:08,290
who believe in the open society who were

1673
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:10,420
opposed to authoritarian governments

1674
01:16:18,660 --> 01:16:13,210
this is this is sorry I was gonna say

1675
01:16:20,550 --> 01:16:18,670
give me an example of a project yes so

1676
01:16:21,660 --> 01:16:20,560
this is something that is that is geared

1677
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:21,670
towards a couple different

1678
01:16:25,740 --> 01:16:23,410
constituencies one of which is the

1679
01:16:27,210 --> 01:16:25,750
people like those anonymous or telecomix

1680
01:16:29,820 --> 01:16:27,220
or these other groups that were sort of

1681
01:16:33,030 --> 01:16:29,830
on the cutting edge of of working

1682
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:33,040
together online against criminalized

1683
01:16:35,910 --> 01:16:35,170
institutions and taking up new effective

1684
01:16:36,330 --> 01:16:35,920
ways of doing that

1685
01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:36,340
this is

1686
01:16:42,980 --> 01:16:39,210
a way of letting them organize in a more

1687
01:16:44,700 --> 01:16:42,990
effective way than the amorphous kind of

1688
01:16:45,810 --> 01:16:44,710
haphazard ways that we did with

1689
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:45,820
anonymous and some of these other things

1690
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:48,010
back then it's also a way for existing

1691
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:49,810
institutions you know groups that are

1692
01:16:53,970 --> 01:16:51,570
out fighting for civil liberties

1693
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:53,980
opposing transparency on government to

1694
01:16:57,570 --> 01:16:55,810
better make use of the people who

1695
01:17:01,140 --> 01:16:57,580
support their causes to not just have

1696
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:01,150
them sign petitions and make donations

1697
01:17:06,630 --> 01:17:03,130
but to get them arrayed into a sort of

1698
01:17:10,950 --> 01:17:06,640
self organized network that can grow

1699
01:17:12,780 --> 01:17:10,960
again and sort of become a real a real

1700
01:17:14,490 --> 01:17:12,790
asset for those groups and to have them

1701
01:17:16,230 --> 01:17:14,500
work together and as well as journalists

1702
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:16,240
we want journalists to be able to use

1703
01:17:19,830 --> 01:17:18,130
this for crowdsourcing which is a which

1704
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:19,840
is a very powerful tool that we use to

1705
01:17:24,510 --> 01:17:22,330
good effect in 2011 you know we did it

1706
01:17:26,610 --> 01:17:24,520
such a good job with the FBI came down

1707
01:17:29,040 --> 01:17:26,620
on us so these these are some of the

1708
01:17:30,690 --> 01:17:29,050
basic uses but one civic example that

1709
01:17:32,750 --> 01:17:30,700
I'll be involved in to give an example

1710
01:17:34,770 --> 01:17:32,760
of what this kind of this thing can do

1711
01:17:37,410 --> 01:17:34,780
when we're putting together a prison

1712
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:37,420
reform project we're going to be

1713
01:17:41,700 --> 01:17:39,970
creating a information package for

1714
01:17:43,170 --> 01:17:41,710
journalists in regional markets for

1715
01:17:45,330 --> 01:17:43,180
local newspapers that kind of thing

1716
01:17:48,570 --> 01:17:45,340
local television stations and teaching

1717
01:17:51,630 --> 01:17:48,580
them how to cover prisons effectively by

1718
01:17:53,970 --> 01:17:51,640
using FOI requests or the grievance

1719
01:17:55,020 --> 01:17:53,980
forms that inmates file in prisons when

1720
01:17:56,790 --> 01:17:55,030
they want to go to court you know

1721
01:17:58,110 --> 01:17:56,800
privileged inmates aren't allowed to

1722
01:17:59,520 --> 01:17:58,120
just write to a judge and say hey I'm

1723
01:18:00,960 --> 01:17:59,530
being kept in a Cell and beaten every

1724
01:18:02,580 --> 01:18:00,970
day and they haven't told me why they

1725
01:18:06,690 --> 01:18:02,590
have to go through this process that

1726
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:06,700
Congress laid on us back in 1996 whereby

1727
01:18:10,170 --> 01:18:08,530
the prison itself gets to oversee the

1728
01:18:12,090 --> 01:18:10,180
process so they have to say okay you've

1729
01:18:13,650 --> 01:18:12,100
turned this in on time and we're

1730
01:18:14,670 --> 01:18:13,660
definitely gonna you know put that in

1731
01:18:16,950 --> 01:18:14,680
the record and we're gonna submit it to

1732
01:18:18,450 --> 01:18:16,960
the next branch of the Bo P so on and so

1733
01:18:22,830 --> 01:18:18,460
forth all the state prisons have this

1734
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:22,840
the federal prison has it so those as I

1735
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:25,090
documented in my column tend not to go

1736
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:26,650
very far you could have expected that if

1737
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:27,610
you would thought you know if you

1738
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:30,810
thought about you know how viable is a

1739
01:18:35,700 --> 01:18:33,010
self defense mechanism that relies on

1740
01:18:39,420 --> 01:18:35,710
your enemy to function and so we're

1741
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:39,430
going to be working with journalists to

1742
01:18:43,740 --> 01:18:41,170
- we're gonna show them that not only

1743
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:43,750
can they can they effectively and

1744
01:18:47,790 --> 01:18:45,970
crucially cover these prisons cover

1745
01:18:49,110 --> 01:18:47,800
what's going on in him but also do it in

1746
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:49,120
a way that helps them and that's very

1747
01:18:51,180 --> 01:18:50,050
importantly gentle

1748
01:18:53,669 --> 01:18:51,190
a journalist's and most of their

1749
01:18:54,959 --> 01:18:53,679
careerists so we're always keen to point

1750
01:18:56,430 --> 01:18:54,969
out that this will make your job easier

1751
01:18:57,870 --> 01:18:56,440
so there's a number of projects like

1752
01:18:59,669 --> 01:18:57,880
that that are intended to like take

1753
01:19:01,859 --> 01:18:59,679
people who have these skills and want to

1754
01:19:03,660 --> 01:19:01,869
help do something and get them arrayed

1755
01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:03,670
into something where they can they can

1756
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:05,050
decide the terms of their involvement

1757
01:19:09,569 --> 01:19:07,690
and then grow and interact with

1758
01:19:13,290 --> 01:19:09,579
something else that's broken so if you

1759
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:13,300
think of pursuance if you think of as

1760
01:19:17,819 --> 01:19:15,610
the state or any institution as a big

1761
01:19:20,339 --> 01:19:17,829
old building that's kind of crumbling in

1762
01:19:22,770 --> 01:19:20,349
some places maybe it has cracks in the

1763
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:22,780
foundation maybe it is a paint job you

1764
01:19:26,129 --> 01:19:24,489
don't all have to agree on what needs to

1765
01:19:27,419 --> 01:19:26,139
be done with the building ultimately in

1766
01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:27,429
order to start building scaffolding

1767
01:19:32,270 --> 01:19:29,770
around it and get together on the parts

1768
01:19:34,379 --> 01:19:32,280
that with the ones that you all agree on

1769
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:34,389
the other thing about scaffolding is you

1770
01:19:38,700 --> 01:19:37,210
can fix nets to it so when the building

1771
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:38,710
starts crumbling down in the future

1772
01:19:43,709 --> 01:19:41,050
bricks won't fall on people below that's

1773
01:19:47,959 --> 01:19:43,719
what pursuance is for States and it

1774
01:19:51,299 --> 01:19:47,969
could could it also I envision

1775
01:19:53,850 --> 01:19:51,309
environmental issues and and and

1776
01:19:57,479 --> 01:19:53,860
tackling that and and taking on those

1777
01:20:00,060 --> 01:19:57,489
big corporations that are messing with

1778
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:00,070
the environment or maybe fracking or

1779
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:03,489
maybe plant some trees and or you know

1780
01:20:07,979 --> 01:20:06,010
what I mean is there it is absolutely it

1781
01:20:10,530 --> 01:20:07,989
doesn't matter right it doesn't matter

1782
01:20:12,359 --> 01:20:10,540
it's just whatever you want to pursue it

1783
01:20:14,370 --> 01:20:12,369
is it is essentially an organizing

1784
01:20:17,129 --> 01:20:14,380
platform it's a platform for masses of

1785
01:20:19,530 --> 01:20:17,139
it collaboration it's it's it's it's

1786
01:20:21,959 --> 01:20:19,540
that we call it process democracy so all

1787
01:20:23,459 --> 01:20:21,969
the participants and participants you

1788
01:20:24,780 --> 01:20:23,469
know come in by invitation from existing

1789
01:20:25,799 --> 01:20:24,790
participants that's how it grows over

1790
01:20:28,649 --> 01:20:25,809
time and of course we're all

1791
01:20:29,850 --> 01:20:28,659
exponentially like those things do they

1792
01:20:31,530 --> 01:20:29,860
decide what they're going to work on

1793
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:31,540
they anyone comes in to create this

1794
01:20:35,580 --> 01:20:32,770
pursuance which is this living

1795
01:20:37,439 --> 01:20:35,590
organizational chart sort of thing and

1796
01:20:38,819 --> 01:20:37,449
this ecosystem arises where all these

1797
01:20:41,339 --> 01:20:38,829
different projects are taking shape and

1798
01:20:42,689 --> 01:20:41,349
that you can see what they are to the

1799
01:20:43,919 --> 01:20:42,699
extent that they're they're visible you

1800
01:20:46,950 --> 01:20:43,929
know obviously some projects or more

1801
01:20:49,229 --> 01:20:46,960
need more security than others but it'll

1802
01:20:50,609 --> 01:20:49,239
be much easier in this ecosystem to find

1803
01:20:52,109 --> 01:20:50,619
the people that you want to work with

1804
01:20:54,479 --> 01:20:52,119
and find the people with the skills that

1805
01:20:56,399 --> 01:20:54,489
you need and offer them a position in

1806
01:20:58,260 --> 01:20:56,409
this little group you've started than it

1807
01:21:00,540 --> 01:20:58,270
is anywhere else it'll be more secure as

1808
01:21:02,010 --> 01:21:00,550
well since it's in encrypted you know

1809
01:21:03,419 --> 01:21:02,020
nothing is 1% secure but we have

1810
01:21:03,810 --> 01:21:03,429
additional layers that are just not a

1811
01:21:06,090 --> 01:21:03,820
veil

1812
01:21:08,250 --> 01:21:06,100
to people who are using slack right now

1813
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:08,260
for these things or Facebook no right

1814
01:21:14,340 --> 01:21:11,170
Rob where can everybody go check out the

1815
01:21:19,590 --> 01:21:14,350
project right now pursuance projects or

1816
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:19,600
gets pu r su ance project org that's

1817
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:22,090
where you can find some diagrams kind of

1818
01:21:24,540 --> 01:21:23,290
strong what we mean by one say uh

1819
01:21:26,700 --> 01:21:24,550
pursuance it's obviously something

1820
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:26,710
that's it's hard to explain just

1821
01:21:30,300 --> 01:21:28,930
verbally but uh you can see what we're

1822
01:21:32,220 --> 01:21:30,310
doing you can see what kind of uses you

1823
01:21:33,930 --> 01:21:32,230
can be put to you can see examples of

1824
01:21:35,940 --> 01:21:33,940
what certain organizations like

1825
01:21:37,650 --> 01:21:35,950
frontline wellness which is a nonprofit

1826
01:21:39,900 --> 01:21:37,660
that goes and provides medical training

1827
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:39,910
in conflict resolution in conflict zones

1828
01:21:42,990 --> 01:21:41,770
around the world you can see examples

1829
01:21:44,580 --> 01:21:43,000
and kind of get a better idea of what

1830
01:21:46,980 --> 01:21:44,590
the possibilities are here but basically

1831
01:21:48,540 --> 01:21:46,990
anything you can envision as someone who

1832
01:21:50,580 --> 01:21:48,550
supports the free society if you just

1833
01:21:51,900 --> 01:21:50,590
agree to these basic principles anything

1834
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:51,910
you envision anything you want to work

1835
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:53,890
on the odds are that there's gonna be

1836
01:21:57,510 --> 01:21:55,570
someone working on slang similar so you

1837
01:22:00,390 --> 01:21:57,520
can join their pursuance or start your

1838
01:22:04,470 --> 01:22:00,400
own it's a it's something that's very

1839
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:04,480
very universal very scalable you know

1840
01:22:07,530 --> 01:22:05,770
ultimately this is not a content-neutral

1841
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:07,540
system we're not trying to empower cops

1842
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:11,770
or nazis but we are you know any anyone

1843
01:22:17,580 --> 01:22:14,530
who agrees on these basic precepts that

1844
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:17,590
we list is welcome now you've been

1845
01:22:21,180 --> 01:22:19,570
envisioning this this isn't something

1846
01:22:23,310 --> 01:22:21,190
that just happened overnight either

1847
01:22:27,810 --> 01:22:23,320
you've been looking at the structure and

1848
01:22:30,210 --> 01:22:27,820
in applying this for how long the first

1849
01:22:32,970 --> 01:22:30,220
the first iteration of pursuance was

1850
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:32,980
what i set up project p.m. to do in 2009

1851
01:22:36,810 --> 01:22:34,570
we had some main i had recruited a bunch

1852
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:36,820
of people using my columns i had enough

1853
01:22:39,780 --> 01:22:38,290
composed and skeptical inquirer in

1854
01:22:42,330 --> 01:22:39,790
different places saying look i'm gonna

1855
01:22:44,010 --> 01:22:42,340
build this thing and if you're in let me

1856
01:22:45,390 --> 01:22:44,020
know my editors were horrified by this

1857
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:45,400
because you know it seems very silly to

1858
01:22:50,010 --> 01:22:47,770
them this guy's calling for this big

1859
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:50,020
Civic Platform cyberpunk thing that

1860
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:52,210
whatever but I did it anyway and so we

1861
01:22:56,100 --> 01:22:53,290
got a number of people who were all very

1862
01:22:57,540 --> 01:22:56,110
sort of early adapter types oddly enough

1863
01:22:59,400 --> 01:22:57,550
my second-in-command at that point was

1864
01:23:02,550 --> 01:22:59,410
not a former IRS lawyer so it was a

1865
01:23:04,530 --> 01:23:02,560
mainstream group then I got involved

1866
01:23:06,210 --> 01:23:04,540
anonymous and because the Tunisian thing

1867
01:23:08,310 --> 01:23:06,220
was happening and then things one thing

1868
01:23:10,260 --> 01:23:08,320
led to another and that all fell by the

1869
01:23:12,300 --> 01:23:10,270
wayside but in the meantime obviously I

1870
01:23:15,030 --> 01:23:12,310
I had the opportunity to learn quite a

1871
01:23:16,950 --> 01:23:15,040
bit about both the broad lessons of

1872
01:23:17,660 --> 01:23:16,960
online organization and human

1873
01:23:19,850 --> 01:23:17,670
organization

1874
01:23:22,010 --> 01:23:19,860
in general and the little mundane things

1875
01:23:24,230 --> 01:23:22,020
that that you know you really kind of

1876
01:23:26,870 --> 01:23:24,240
pick up after a while and apply all

1877
01:23:28,430 --> 01:23:26,880
these things into this system so the

1878
01:23:31,310 --> 01:23:28,440
system we have now the way this works

1879
01:23:32,450 --> 01:23:31,320
now is far more refined than what we

1880
01:23:36,530 --> 01:23:32,460
were originally putting together but

1881
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:36,540
even that was a it was useful enough to

1882
01:23:40,220 --> 01:23:38,730
those who saw it that we had no problem

1883
01:23:41,750 --> 01:23:40,230
recruiting for it and this this is

1884
01:23:43,490 --> 01:23:41,760
obviously vastly better which is why we

1885
01:23:46,550 --> 01:23:43,500
have a board of directors with some

1886
01:23:48,440 --> 01:23:46,560
pretty high caliber figures like

1887
01:23:49,820 --> 01:23:48,450
Birgitta jónsdóttir a member of

1888
01:23:52,270 --> 01:23:49,830
parliament from iceland who was only

1889
01:23:54,770 --> 01:23:52,280
involved of wikileaks john kerry aku who

1890
01:23:56,630 --> 01:23:54,780
blew the whistle on CIA torture and also

1891
01:23:58,820 --> 01:23:56,640
went to prison a number of college

1892
01:24:01,640 --> 01:23:58,830
professors journalists that sort of

1893
01:24:03,050 --> 01:24:01,650
thing we have we have we don't just have

1894
01:24:04,700 --> 01:24:03,060
an idea that I'm going to sit here and

1895
01:24:06,890 --> 01:24:04,710
say oh if everyone did this you know

1896
01:24:09,140 --> 01:24:06,900
it'd be great we have the means to get

1897
01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:09,150
people in and use it and that's that's

1898
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:10,290
the important part that I always want to

1899
01:24:12,860 --> 01:24:11,610
make clear because you know they're a

1900
01:24:14,390 --> 01:24:12,870
great ideas out there there's things

1901
01:24:16,370 --> 01:24:14,400
like liquid democracy there's all kinds

1902
01:24:19,340 --> 01:24:16,380
of software platforms for organizing the

1903
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:19,350
problem is because of just the goofiness

1904
01:24:24,860 --> 01:24:22,770
of how we prioritize what we're going to

1905
01:24:28,250 --> 01:24:24,870
do they don't get a lot of media picked

1906
01:24:30,290 --> 01:24:28,260
up so we do have this opportunity to

1907
01:24:31,700 --> 01:24:30,300
ensure that you know beyond the 1,900

1908
01:24:33,740 --> 01:24:31,710
people in organizations that have signed

1909
01:24:36,410 --> 01:24:33,750
up thus far that over the coming couple

1910
01:24:37,730 --> 01:24:36,420
years we bring in 30 40 thousand high

1911
01:24:40,190 --> 01:24:37,740
caliber people with different skills

1912
01:24:42,140 --> 01:24:40,200
different backgrounds different means of

1913
01:24:44,330 --> 01:24:42,150
acquiring information and let them work

1914
01:24:48,290 --> 01:24:44,340
out exactly what they're going to do it

1915
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:48,300
does does this kind of thing that you

1916
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:49,890
have gone through I don't want to be

1917
01:24:54,950 --> 01:24:51,930
loose with what I'm trying to say here

1918
01:24:57,950 --> 01:24:54,960
but I'm talking about the big picture it

1919
01:24:59,990 --> 01:24:57,960
do you feel like it's restricted your

1920
01:25:03,740 --> 01:25:00,000
opportunities out there for journalism

1921
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:03,750
now have those calls stopped or is the

1922
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:06,930
phone off the hook well it's both they

1923
01:25:09,500 --> 01:25:08,610
have the DOJ has made it very difficult

1924
01:25:12,710 --> 01:25:09,510
for me

1925
01:25:16,820 --> 01:25:12,720
they reached me last year when I was

1926
01:25:17,480 --> 01:25:16,830
still on a halfway house basically on

1927
01:25:19,220 --> 01:25:17,490
wood

1928
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:19,230
I forgot the term for it wasn't on

1929
01:25:22,820 --> 01:25:21,570
probation you get had Miria rested

1930
01:25:25,220 --> 01:25:22,830
because I gave an interview to Vice

1931
01:25:26,480 --> 01:25:25,230
another one to PBS and they claimed that

1932
01:25:28,970 --> 01:25:26,490
I wasn't allowed to give interviews I

1933
01:25:30,230 --> 01:25:28,980
happen to know for a fact since I given

1934
01:25:31,610 --> 01:25:30,240
them from prison for instance over the

1935
01:25:32,780 --> 01:25:31,620
phone's number of times

1936
01:25:35,540 --> 01:25:32,790
and was familiar with the actual

1937
01:25:36,950 --> 01:25:35,550
guidebook on that for inmates but I was

1938
01:25:38,210 --> 01:25:36,960
allowed to and I told them no I'm not

1939
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:38,220
going to get your permission to give

1940
01:25:41,990 --> 01:25:39,530
interviews and they rear ested me

1941
01:25:44,450 --> 01:25:42,000
publisher down here you're paid $11,000

1942
01:25:45,500 --> 01:25:44,460
to a law firm to threatened him let's

1943
01:25:46,820 --> 01:25:45,510
take it to court and they let me out

1944
01:25:48,830 --> 01:25:46,830
immediately

1945
01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:48,840
then they subpoenaed the intercept which

1946
01:25:53,270 --> 01:25:50,610
I used to write for they subpoenaed my

1947
01:25:54,740 --> 01:25:53,280
publishers and my agents for the book

1948
01:25:57,980 --> 01:25:54,750
that I've got that of course has a lot

1949
01:25:59,900 --> 01:25:57,990
of embarrassing DOJ material beyond

1950
01:26:01,400 --> 01:25:59,910
what's already available and they

1951
01:26:02,810 --> 01:26:01,410
subpoena subpoenaed them for all my

1952
01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:02,820
communications between them the editors

1953
01:26:07,310 --> 01:26:05,250
and also demanded that they not pay me

1954
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:07,320
in my book advance until further notice

1955
01:26:11,090 --> 01:26:08,850
and that further notice turned out to be

1956
01:26:15,410 --> 01:26:11,100
quite further indeed so just yesterday

1957
01:26:16,700 --> 01:26:15,420
after a year I got my net my my income

1958
01:26:18,710 --> 01:26:16,710
the income I've been waiting for for a

1959
01:26:20,420 --> 01:26:18,720
year so they've definitely done what

1960
01:26:22,850 --> 01:26:20,430
they can to stymie this operation

1961
01:26:24,770 --> 01:26:22,860
quickly pursuance they they know that I

1962
01:26:27,490 --> 01:26:24,780
was planning and had already started

1963
01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:27,500
sort of self funding it from the get-go

1964
01:26:31,100 --> 01:26:29,730
and so they sort of prevented me from

1965
01:26:33,890 --> 01:26:31,110
being able to do that luckily we have

1966
01:26:35,450 --> 01:26:33,900
volunteers that care enough about this

1967
01:26:37,520 --> 01:26:35,460
that they have done this stuff with no

1968
01:26:39,110 --> 01:26:37,530
money in some cases even put in their

1969
01:26:42,310 --> 01:26:39,120
own to a better conferences and I kind

1970
01:26:44,510 --> 01:26:42,320
of think so on the other hand obviously

1971
01:26:46,340 --> 01:26:44,520
if you didn't want to good was my name

1972
01:26:48,260 --> 01:26:46,350
they're gonna see a great deal of

1973
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:48,270
material about the things that I that I

1974
01:26:54,980 --> 01:26:51,090
call it correctly they're gonna see you

1975
01:26:56,510 --> 01:26:54,990
know that I have certain unusual

1976
01:26:59,090 --> 01:26:56,520
qualities for a journalist one of which

1977
01:27:00,620 --> 01:26:59,100
is that I that I don't just want to be a

1978
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:00,630
journalist I don't want I don't want to

1979
01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:01,650
just have readers I want to have

1980
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:05,250
constituents and that obviously makes it

1981
01:27:08,810 --> 01:27:07,290
easier it makes me more credible having

1982
01:27:10,070 --> 01:27:08,820
the the awards and all that that I

1983
01:27:12,650 --> 01:27:10,080
wouldn't have gotten if I wasn't I

1984
01:27:15,950 --> 01:27:12,660
hadn't been to prison that helps me with

1985
01:27:17,690 --> 01:27:15,960
mainstream people and it's kept my

1986
01:27:19,910 --> 01:27:17,700
credibility up among those you know the

1987
01:27:21,380 --> 01:27:19,920
less mainstream and that's that's been

1988
01:27:23,980 --> 01:27:21,390
very important to doing this to putting

1989
01:27:26,390 --> 01:27:23,990
this together a very big part of this is

1990
01:27:27,230 --> 01:27:26,400
getting people's attention in the first

1991
01:27:28,940 --> 01:27:27,240
place

1992
01:27:32,300 --> 01:27:28,950
another big part of it is being able to

1993
01:27:34,730 --> 01:27:32,310
get prominent figures to come out and

1994
01:27:36,110 --> 01:27:34,740
endorse it and to work on it and so from

1995
01:27:37,130 --> 01:27:36,120
a board of directors and those are

1996
01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:37,140
things that I just would not have been

1997
01:27:41,590 --> 01:27:39,930
able to do to that extent had the DOJ

1998
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:41,600
not come after me in the way they did

1999
01:27:48,280 --> 01:27:44,610
well you ready to take some phone calls

2000
01:27:51,650 --> 01:27:48,290
after this break absolutely let's do it

2001
01:27:54,740 --> 01:27:51,660
let me fire this up our guest tonight on

2002
01:27:56,930 --> 01:27:54,750
this wonderful Fator night Barrett Brown

2003
01:27:59,270 --> 01:27:56,940
is here all right I'm gonna open up the

2004
01:28:03,740 --> 01:27:59,280
phone lines after this short break three

2005
01:28:06,050 --> 01:28:03,750
two three eight to five five zero four

2006
01:28:08,240 --> 01:28:06,060
or five it is fate or night it's open

2007
01:28:10,550 --> 01:28:08,250
lines bare Brown is here on meros Jimmy

2008
01:28:22,619 --> 01:28:10,560
Church stay with us we'll be right back

2009
01:28:29,829 --> 01:28:25,799
way out here we listen to Jimmy Church

2010
01:28:32,139 --> 01:28:29,839
you're listening to fade to black always

2011
01:28:34,959 --> 01:28:32,149
on the edge of the hottest alternative

2012
01:28:54,579 --> 01:28:34,969
talk jimmy church with fade to black

2013
01:28:57,939 --> 01:28:54,589
stay GRA radio.com Akane's

2014
01:28:59,679 --> 01:28:57,949
earthquakes wildfires this year we've

2015
01:29:02,079 --> 01:28:59,689
experienced more than our fair share

2016
01:29:04,959 --> 01:29:02,089
this is Jimmy Church of fade to black

2017
01:29:07,149 --> 01:29:04,969
and last month I decided to make sure my

2018
01:29:09,310 --> 01:29:07,159
family does not have to worry about food

2019
01:29:13,060 --> 01:29:09,320
should we get caught in a real emergency

2020
01:29:14,979 --> 01:29:13,070
situation introducing Humana a healthy

2021
01:29:16,779 --> 01:29:14,989
storable product that tastes so good

2022
01:29:18,549 --> 01:29:16,789
that you'll want to eat it every day

2023
01:29:21,310 --> 01:29:18,559
instead of just during those times of

2024
01:29:24,729 --> 01:29:21,320
duress all new manna products have a 25

2025
01:29:26,849 --> 01:29:24,739
year shelf life our msg and GMO free no

2026
01:29:29,259 --> 01:29:26,859
preservatives and are made in America

2027
01:29:31,060 --> 01:29:29,269
with the new manna pack in your home

2028
01:29:33,879 --> 01:29:31,070
you'll be able to sleep at night knowing

2029
01:29:36,759 --> 01:29:33,889
that you protected your family not only

2030
01:29:39,159 --> 01:29:36,769
have I tasted and tested I own it

2031
01:29:40,899 --> 01:29:39,169
now you can too just click on the new

2032
01:29:43,239 --> 01:29:40,909
manna banner on Jimmy Church radio.com

2033
01:29:45,699 --> 01:29:43,249
and use the promo code Jimmy when you

2034
01:29:47,349 --> 01:29:45,709
order in addition to a discount we'll

2035
01:29:51,790 --> 01:29:47,359
send you an autograph fade to black

2036
01:29:53,679 --> 01:29:51,800
t-shirt seriously gobekli tepe do you

2037
01:29:55,659 --> 01:29:53,689
worry a lot whether you're a college

2038
01:29:58,149 --> 01:29:55,669
student busy professional parent or

2039
01:29:59,829 --> 01:29:58,159
grandparent ongoing stress and elevated

2040
01:30:02,169 --> 01:29:59,839
levels of the stress hormone cortisol

2041
01:30:04,659 --> 01:30:02,179
can rob your memory your health and your

2042
01:30:06,639 --> 01:30:04,669
future now you can combat the effects of

2043
01:30:08,799 --> 01:30:06,649
stress and anxiety while improving your

2044
01:30:11,049 --> 01:30:08,809
memory and recall at the same time with

2045
01:30:12,790 --> 01:30:11,059
the dietary supplement calm and clever

2046
01:30:14,919 --> 01:30:12,800
studies show that the ingredients in

2047
01:30:17,109 --> 01:30:14,929
common clever reduce cortisol by as much

2048
01:30:19,060 --> 01:30:17,119
as 30% in one to two weeks

2049
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:19,070
call 1-800 seven five eight eight seven

2050
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:22,010
four six or calm and clever calm

2051
01:30:35,109 --> 01:30:24,530
you listen to us and we listen to you

2052
01:30:36,939 --> 01:30:35,119
and so does the CIA k GRA radio.com you

2053
01:30:40,890 --> 01:30:36,949
are listening to fade to black with

2054
01:30:44,259 --> 01:30:40,900
Jimmy Church on the game changer Network

2055
01:30:47,140 --> 01:30:44,269
hi I'm Lisa Vance you're listening to

2056
01:30:49,959 --> 01:30:47,150
Jim II Church this is revolution the

2057
01:30:57,430 --> 01:30:49,969
revolution will not be televised the

2058
01:30:57,440 --> 01:31:35,000
[Music]

2059
01:31:40,830 --> 01:31:37,770
all right welcome back fade to black I'm

2060
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:40,840
your signature CH its fate or night it's

2061
01:31:47,490 --> 01:31:44,130
now open lines three to three a two five

2062
01:31:51,060 --> 01:31:47,500
five zero four or five our special guest

2063
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:51,070
tonight is Barrett Brown and all right

2064
01:31:58,830 --> 01:31:53,890
Barrett you ready to do this absolutely

2065
01:32:01,010 --> 01:31:58,840
Osborn ready lets you know everything

2066
01:32:04,440 --> 01:32:01,020
that we deal with on this show which is

2067
01:32:07,920 --> 01:32:04,450
conspiracy the man the New World Order

2068
01:32:10,320 --> 01:32:07,930
and UFOs and ghosts and spirituality and

2069
01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:10,330
in all parallel worlds and time travel

2070
01:32:14,850 --> 01:32:12,730
you never know what these phone calls

2071
01:32:16,260 --> 01:32:14,860
are gonna be like so let's see what we

2072
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:16,270
have first hi you're live on fade to

2073
01:32:21,800 --> 01:32:19,930
black who's calling hey Jimmy it's uh

2074
01:32:28,970 --> 01:32:21,810
it's me it's Donny

2075
01:32:32,520 --> 01:32:28,980
zone II yeah okay okay Tony how are you

2076
01:32:35,220 --> 01:32:32,530
I'm good how are you I'm doing good

2077
01:32:37,470 --> 01:32:35,230
say hi to bear it how are you Barrett

2078
01:32:39,570 --> 01:32:37,480
how are you tonight I'm fantastic I'm

2079
01:32:45,630 --> 01:32:39,580
always fantastic what did we have for

2080
01:32:47,880 --> 01:32:45,640
Aaron um well I let all that Barrett

2081
01:32:49,980 --> 01:32:47,890
start um I'm not I'm always good at

2082
01:32:53,040 --> 01:32:49,990
answering questions not really asking

2083
01:32:54,540 --> 01:32:53,050
them good I want to ask you this we have

2084
01:32:55,860 --> 01:32:54,550
a Kickstarter going on for this

2085
01:32:58,770 --> 01:32:55,870
pursuance project we've been talking

2086
01:33:00,870 --> 01:32:58,780
about this is everyone out there who was

2087
01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:00,880
a former whistleblower who was involved

2088
01:33:05,100 --> 01:33:03,730
in fighting for the free society with

2089
01:33:07,620 --> 01:33:05,110
their skin in the game they all agree

2090
01:33:09,300 --> 01:33:07,630
that this is the best way forward so we

2091
01:33:10,140 --> 01:33:09,310
have three days left how much money

2092
01:33:16,730 --> 01:33:10,150
you're going to put into this

2093
01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:16,740
Kickstarter I don't have any money I

2094
01:33:31,290 --> 01:33:30,210
anyway okay one at a time here I'm sorry

2095
01:33:33,750 --> 01:33:31,300
Barry

2096
01:33:35,340 --> 01:33:33,760
that's okay what Barrett said was we

2097
01:33:38,010 --> 01:33:35,350
need to get the word out you need to let

2098
01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:38,020
your friends know too as well bang this

2099
01:33:44,580 --> 01:33:41,290
out and retweet and and get it out there

2100
01:33:46,990 --> 01:33:44,590
for us I shall do that right now cuz I'm

2101
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:47,000
sitting in front of my computer guys

2102
01:33:51,250 --> 01:33:50,330
you tweet that I'll retweet your tweet

2103
01:33:54,880 --> 01:33:51,260
how's that

2104
01:33:58,240 --> 01:33:54,890
I just retweeted your tweet Jimmy about

2105
01:34:00,430 --> 01:33:58,250
Barrow brahms pursuance project and I

2106
01:34:05,710 --> 01:34:00,440
read up on it a bit and I liked the idea

2107
01:34:07,960 --> 01:34:05,720
very much I need to read more in depth

2108
01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:07,970
about it but I'm with you guys all the

2109
01:34:13,210 --> 01:34:10,730
way thank you so much Tony and behave

2110
01:34:16,210 --> 01:34:13,220
and be well I'll retweet your retweet

2111
01:34:17,650 --> 01:34:16,220
okay thank you so much guys thank you

2112
01:34:21,190 --> 01:34:17,660
for the time thanks for accepting my

2113
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:21,200
call yeah thank you and you know Barrett

2114
01:34:28,390 --> 01:34:25,010
there's that it's going back to this

2115
01:34:32,830 --> 01:34:28,400
spirituality side of things you had a

2116
01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:32,840
long time to contemplate about you know

2117
01:34:38,980 --> 01:34:35,330
yourself your life the past and what the

2118
01:34:44,380 --> 01:34:38,990
future could be did you did you have any

2119
01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:44,390
type of you know did that did you see

2120
01:34:53,170 --> 01:34:46,570
the light did things take off

2121
01:34:54,730 --> 01:34:53,180
assalamualaikum I'll tell you this I was

2122
01:34:56,440 --> 01:34:54,740
before I went to prison I was very much

2123
01:34:59,200 --> 01:34:56,450
a horrible little anarchist robot and

2124
01:35:00,520 --> 01:34:59,210
anytime I read a book I was thinking to

2125
01:35:03,940 --> 01:35:00,530
myself is this like I can use an

2126
01:35:06,430 --> 01:35:03,950
argument someday to win and that was a

2127
01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:06,440
sort of a fault you know this was deep

2128
01:35:10,390 --> 01:35:08,570
in my psyche it wasn't until I got to

2129
01:35:12,130 --> 01:35:10,400
prison and was at first facing the

2130
01:35:14,590 --> 01:35:12,140
prospect of 20 or 30 years when I was

2131
01:35:17,190 --> 01:35:14,600
able to sort of let myself go and enjoy

2132
01:35:21,100 --> 01:35:17,200
things like poetry

2133
01:35:23,500 --> 01:35:21,110
really yeah and in geometry and and you

2134
01:35:25,290 --> 01:35:23,510
know reading you know just picking up

2135
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:25,300
knowledge that is not necessarily useful

2136
01:35:29,530 --> 01:35:28,010
that was something that I finally was

2137
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:29,540
able to do and that's that's very much

2138
01:35:36,220 --> 01:35:32,570
enriched my life and one other one other

2139
01:35:38,260 --> 01:35:36,230
question did your diet change oh by

2140
01:35:40,420 --> 01:35:38,270
necessity yeah yeah ending on where you

2141
01:35:42,400 --> 01:35:40,430
are yeah the you know but I'll tell ya I

2142
01:35:44,110 --> 01:35:42,410
developed a taste for green green beans

2143
01:35:45,910 --> 01:35:44,120
and rice because that's what they allow

2144
01:35:47,320 --> 01:35:45,920
you to have all you want up they have a

2145
01:35:49,720 --> 01:35:47,330
little tray there so in addition to your

2146
01:35:50,860 --> 01:35:49,730
lot it's allotted food right you can

2147
01:35:53,680 --> 01:35:50,870
have all the Sri means and rice so I

2148
01:35:59,140 --> 01:35:53,690
think it's a great a great dinner by its

2149
01:35:59,910 --> 01:35:59,150
own so oh man I don't want to make light

2150
01:36:03,479 --> 01:35:59,920
of this

2151
01:36:04,770 --> 01:36:03,489
but is that part of your diet now yeah

2152
01:36:05,970 --> 01:36:04,780
it is actually yeah it's one of the

2153
01:36:07,830 --> 01:36:05,980
things I picked up another one is

2154
01:36:10,950 --> 01:36:07,840
freeze-dried coffee they've got some

2155
01:36:12,209 --> 01:36:10,960
very strong very robust freeze-dried

2156
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:12,219
coffee that they'd only sell the

2157
01:36:15,689 --> 01:36:14,050
prisoners you can't get it really out

2158
01:36:19,080 --> 01:36:15,699
here without going to the distributor

2159
01:36:21,900 --> 01:36:19,090
and somewhat someone sent me it or nine

2160
01:36:22,770 --> 01:36:21,910
bags of that and long ago so I've still

2161
01:36:25,950 --> 01:36:22,780
got that in my diet

2162
01:36:27,180 --> 01:36:25,960
that is that is very interesting let's

2163
01:36:28,939 --> 01:36:27,190
go back to the phones hi you're live on

2164
01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:28,949
fade to black who's calling

2165
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:31,810
this is Doug from Lake of the Ozarks hey

2166
01:36:37,010 --> 01:36:33,850
Doug from Lake of the Ozarks say hi to

2167
01:36:42,030 --> 01:36:37,020
bear brown hey bear how are you

2168
01:36:44,220 --> 01:36:42,040
greetings greetings yes I got so many

2169
01:36:46,260 --> 01:36:44,230
questions but I guess I'll ask probably

2170
01:36:49,500 --> 01:36:46,270
the one that's I consider to be the most

2171
01:36:51,750 --> 01:36:49,510
important let's say someone is maybe

2172
01:36:53,459 --> 01:36:51,760
sitting on some information or they know

2173
01:36:55,979 --> 01:36:53,469
some things and what now what what kind

2174
01:36:58,470 --> 01:36:55,989
of advice or recommendations would you

2175
01:37:01,650 --> 01:36:58,480
give to someone who's maybe wanting to

2176
01:37:03,570 --> 01:37:01,660
expose something more but there are

2177
01:37:06,030 --> 01:37:03,580
organizations one of which is the

2178
01:37:08,430 --> 01:37:06,040
freedom of the press foundation that is

2179
01:37:11,400 --> 01:37:08,440
staffed and overseen by some very high

2180
01:37:13,320 --> 01:37:11,410
caliber people who have they oversee I

2181
01:37:14,760 --> 01:37:13,330
believe it's then to oversee this secure

2182
01:37:16,830 --> 01:37:14,770
drop in the drop box it was something

2183
01:37:18,060 --> 01:37:16,840
that uh I believe Aaron Schwartz was

2184
01:37:19,550 --> 01:37:18,070
involved in creating Thunder Swartz

2185
01:37:21,689 --> 01:37:19,560
reports was one of the one of the really

2186
01:37:23,970 --> 01:37:21,699
visionaries of the internet and he

2187
01:37:24,689 --> 01:37:23,980
ultimately committed suicide facing 20

2188
01:37:27,740 --> 01:37:24,699
years in prison

2189
01:37:30,450 --> 01:37:27,750
by the DOJ for having made available

2190
01:37:32,250 --> 01:37:30,460
documents from MIT it was another thing

2191
01:37:33,780 --> 01:37:32,260
we it would it would take too long to

2192
01:37:34,950 --> 01:37:33,790
really go into this but there are there

2193
01:37:36,270 --> 01:37:34,960
are organizations like the freedom of

2194
01:37:40,979 --> 01:37:36,280
the press foundation you can find online

2195
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:40,989
and and and outlets of that nature that

2196
01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:42,250
have experience in whistleblowing and

2197
01:37:46,290 --> 01:37:44,530
you should read their guides on there

2198
01:37:48,900 --> 01:37:46,300
before you do anything before you send a

2199
01:37:51,740 --> 01:37:48,910
single email before you log on to a news

2200
01:37:54,810 --> 01:37:51,750
site that you might plan on leaking to

2201
01:37:57,060 --> 01:37:54,820
we have some examples of what not to do

2202
01:37:59,280 --> 01:37:57,070
in some of these cases I don't want to

2203
01:38:03,000 --> 01:37:59,290
go in specifics here but you can you can

2204
01:38:04,650 --> 01:38:03,010
find those you will never regret being

2205
01:38:06,450 --> 01:38:04,660
very cautious and you will never regret

2206
01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:06,460
reading a great deal of material out

2207
01:38:11,250 --> 01:38:09,370
there weighing it and looking into the

2208
01:38:13,739 --> 01:38:11,260
people writing it the figure of the

2209
01:38:17,279 --> 01:38:13,749
press foundation is probably the best

2210
01:38:19,439 --> 01:38:17,289
to start yeah all right cool anyway I

2211
01:38:22,469 --> 01:38:19,449
didn't have to escape to Russia or

2212
01:38:25,889 --> 01:38:22,479
anything like that so yeah yeah I heard

2213
01:38:27,959 --> 01:38:25,899
it thing I heard a thing about you know

2214
01:38:29,879 --> 01:38:27,969
Snowden had his deal and your while back

2215
01:38:34,469 --> 01:38:29,889
and he had some advice I guess you know

2216
01:38:36,179 --> 01:38:34,479
for people and and and he got no and but

2217
01:38:38,639 --> 01:38:36,189
unfortunately the advice was get out of

2218
01:38:41,569 --> 01:38:38,649
the country you know and well it's good

2219
01:38:45,269 --> 01:38:43,919
yeah all right now I appreciate the

2220
01:38:46,229 --> 01:38:45,279
question I know you got other color so

2221
01:38:47,549 --> 01:38:46,239
I'll get off here leave you guys alone

2222
01:38:49,859 --> 01:38:47,559
but I appreciate everything you do it

2223
01:38:52,339 --> 01:38:49,869
Jimmy and the YouTube mr. bear thank you

2224
01:38:59,009 --> 01:38:52,349
very much like thank you Dave

2225
01:39:02,519 --> 01:38:59,019
what staying on Dave's thought process

2226
01:39:04,139 --> 01:39:02,529
there if you because I get it every day

2227
01:39:06,869 --> 01:39:04,149
that you can imagine Barrett I get stuff

2228
01:39:09,059 --> 01:39:06,879
coming in my email some stuff I'm afraid

2229
01:39:12,449 --> 01:39:09,069
to even click on I don't want to see it

2230
01:39:14,249 --> 01:39:12,459
with my eyeballs I don't want to have to

2231
01:39:18,229 --> 01:39:14,259
face anything later I'm very cautious

2232
01:39:23,729 --> 01:39:18,239
about it what would you do today if

2233
01:39:27,529 --> 01:39:23,739
something was given to you that you know

2234
01:39:31,559 --> 01:39:27,539
which you maybe not only in jeopardy but

2235
01:39:33,479 --> 01:39:31,569
what would you do with that today very

2236
01:39:35,969 --> 01:39:33,489
similar the advice I would give him or

2237
01:39:37,709 --> 01:39:35,979
any any other anyone sort of outside of

2238
01:39:39,719 --> 01:39:37,719
the realm of media just the the the

2239
01:39:43,079 --> 01:39:39,729
person out there who might come across

2240
01:39:44,789 --> 01:39:43,089
something I would first you know you set

2241
01:39:47,789 --> 01:39:44,799
aside what I think I know about security

2242
01:39:49,469 --> 01:39:47,799
and immediately read some of these

2243
01:39:51,449 --> 01:39:49,479
guides and had written by groups like

2244
01:39:52,919 --> 01:39:51,459
the for no depressed foundation before I

2245
01:39:55,079 --> 01:39:52,929
made a single move before I made a phone

2246
01:39:56,879 --> 01:39:55,089
call even on you know why or signal or

2247
01:40:00,119 --> 01:39:56,889
one of these in decrypted deals I would

2248
01:40:02,429 --> 01:40:00,129
first make sure that I have the best

2249
01:40:05,129 --> 01:40:02,439
chance of having thought about all of

2250
01:40:06,929 --> 01:40:05,139
those things that the FBI and NSA have

2251
01:40:08,519 --> 01:40:06,939
had decades to think about in terms of

2252
01:40:11,009 --> 01:40:08,529
how to catch whistleblowers there is

2253
01:40:12,359 --> 01:40:11,019
software one of the things that we came

2254
01:40:14,369 --> 01:40:12,369
across one that one of the times what I

2255
01:40:16,499 --> 01:40:14,379
did have an informants that worked out

2256
01:40:17,999 --> 01:40:16,509
real well when I was provided

2257
01:40:19,499 --> 01:40:18,009
information about Raytheon there was a

2258
01:40:21,779 --> 01:40:19,509
project they were working on and they're

2259
01:40:23,639 --> 01:40:21,789
not alone in this software by which to

2260
01:40:25,979 --> 01:40:23,649
detect whistleblowers by looking at

2261
01:40:27,660 --> 01:40:25,989
their online habits that sort of thing

2262
01:40:30,390 --> 01:40:27,670
that kind of thing

2263
01:40:32,280 --> 01:40:30,400
as with so much else there is software

2264
01:40:35,160 --> 01:40:32,290
and technology and methodology it is

2265
01:40:36,930 --> 01:40:35,170
kind of hard to hard for a skeptical

2266
01:40:39,330 --> 01:40:36,940
persons who believe in it first but

2267
01:40:41,939 --> 01:40:39,340
that's usually because if you're not a

2268
01:40:44,310 --> 01:40:41,949
specialist in psychology or or in

2269
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:44,320
forensics or in the intelligence

2270
01:40:47,100 --> 01:40:45,850
community there's a great deal that's

2271
01:40:51,630 --> 01:40:47,110
just not going to be obvious to you and

2272
01:40:53,189 --> 01:40:51,640
so you know I'll always be aware of you

2273
01:40:54,979 --> 01:40:53,199
know the we came across some very

2274
01:40:57,120 --> 01:40:54,989
extraordinary and disturbing programs

2275
01:40:59,100 --> 01:40:57,130
during our investigations like persona

2276
01:41:01,470 --> 01:40:59,110
Management which creates fake online

2277
01:41:04,439 --> 01:41:01,480
people and uses them for propaganda and

2278
01:41:06,419 --> 01:41:04,449
to manufacture events there's a lot of

2279
01:41:08,459 --> 01:41:06,429
things that you know an objectively you

2280
01:41:10,610 --> 01:41:08,469
know neutrally impressed us with how

2281
01:41:12,810 --> 01:41:10,620
powerful and dangerous they were and

2282
01:41:15,060 --> 01:41:12,820
even putting them out even putting that

2283
01:41:17,459 --> 01:41:15,070
stuff out didn't necessarily get

2284
01:41:19,080 --> 01:41:17,469
everyone's attention and so there are a

2285
01:41:21,150 --> 01:41:19,090
lot of journalists themselves who don't

2286
01:41:24,810 --> 01:41:21,160
necessarily know what to do if they get

2287
01:41:28,439 --> 01:41:24,820
very sensitive information the the

2288
01:41:31,800 --> 01:41:28,449
community the the hacker community when

2289
01:41:35,550 --> 01:41:31,810
I went to the Hope conference in New

2290
01:41:40,290 --> 01:41:35,560
York now bear in mind I went out there

2291
01:41:42,510 --> 01:41:40,300
to I was filming my TV show right and I

2292
01:41:45,479 --> 01:41:42,520
went out there to not only attend the

2293
01:41:49,709 --> 01:41:45,489
hacker conference which we had all of

2294
01:41:52,250 --> 01:41:49,719
the the paperwork and everything to film

2295
01:41:56,610 --> 01:41:52,260
in New York and and clearance through

2296
01:41:59,280 --> 01:41:56,620
hope itself and and that those

2297
01:42:03,660 --> 01:41:59,290
credentials but I was there for Gregg

2298
01:42:08,189 --> 01:42:03,670
Housh and Gabriela Coleman amongst

2299
01:42:10,890 --> 01:42:08,199
others but what I didn't I thought that

2300
01:42:14,520 --> 01:42:10,900
the community would take a look at me

2301
01:42:19,020 --> 01:42:14,530
and go okay cool he's here to tell our

2302
01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:19,030
story it was the exact opposite I there

2303
01:42:24,419 --> 01:42:21,370
was a moment there you can imagine

2304
01:42:26,939 --> 01:42:24,429
Barrett where I brought up your name

2305
01:42:32,669 --> 01:42:26,949
a couple of times to get people's

2306
01:42:36,090 --> 01:42:32,679
opinion and and was poking and I felt

2307
01:42:39,180 --> 01:42:36,100
like I was lucky to be alive they

2308
01:42:41,489 --> 01:42:39,190
protect themselves they protect their

2309
01:42:45,029 --> 01:42:41,499
own and I was there too

2310
01:42:48,089 --> 01:42:45,039
tell the story they wanted nothing to do

2311
01:42:49,770 --> 01:42:48,099
with me some of these people especially

2312
01:42:54,719 --> 01:42:49,780
the ones that we've had to rely on here

2313
01:42:57,959 --> 01:42:54,729
and there who are hackers are not fun to

2314
01:43:00,560 --> 01:42:57,969
work with and have you know sometimes

2315
01:43:02,640 --> 01:43:00,570
believe that their knowledge of networks

2316
01:43:07,020 --> 01:43:02,650
translates into other things that it

2317
01:43:09,450 --> 01:43:07,030
just doesn't and so there is over over

2318
01:43:11,069 --> 01:43:09,460
cautiousness in some respects and under

2319
01:43:11,939 --> 01:43:11,079
cautiousness and others there's also a

2320
01:43:14,399 --> 01:43:11,949
lot of play-acting

2321
01:43:15,680 --> 01:43:14,409
it's very common among activism people

2322
01:43:17,640 --> 01:43:15,690
like to think that they're under more

2323
01:43:20,069 --> 01:43:17,650
scrutiny for the things they're doing

2324
01:43:22,259 --> 01:43:20,079
than they are and of course we know

2325
01:43:24,540 --> 01:43:22,269
they're under a lot done potentially is

2326
01:43:26,310 --> 01:43:24,550
the extent they do anything but there's

2327
01:43:28,640 --> 01:43:26,320
also a lot of what we might call the the

2328
01:43:30,569 --> 01:43:28,650
activist version of security theater and

2329
01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:30,579
that's and that's fun that makes it

2330
01:43:33,450 --> 01:43:32,170
makes it makes it harder to do the

2331
01:43:34,560 --> 01:43:33,460
things they're trying to do because they

2332
01:43:35,669 --> 01:43:34,570
don't really address that and think

2333
01:43:37,350 --> 01:43:35,679
think those things through I'm not

2334
01:43:40,080 --> 01:43:37,360
surprised that you've had a bad

2335
01:43:41,850 --> 01:43:40,090
experience trying to get these some of

2336
01:43:43,589 --> 01:43:41,860
these people to tell useful information

2337
01:43:45,899 --> 01:43:43,599
to others not all of them are in favor

2338
01:43:47,850 --> 01:43:45,909
of that not all of them are transparency

2339
01:43:50,339 --> 01:43:47,860
types some of them are just sort of

2340
01:43:52,680 --> 01:43:50,349
another it's another elite cadre of

2341
01:43:57,180 --> 01:43:52,690
people who were just there to be elite

2342
01:44:00,299 --> 01:43:57,190
well and and eventually I it took me a

2343
01:44:02,790 --> 01:44:00,309
couple of days I broke down some of

2344
01:44:05,729 --> 01:44:02,800
those barriers and I've got some of them

2345
01:44:07,890 --> 01:44:05,739
to open up and I'll tell you I I got on

2346
01:44:10,200 --> 01:44:07,900
one of the elevators and I've got you

2347
01:44:12,509 --> 01:44:10,210
know my producers with me and and a

2348
01:44:16,379 --> 01:44:12,519
director and a sound guy and a couple of

2349
01:44:17,729 --> 01:44:16,389
camp you know I had like 12 people you

2350
01:44:20,310 --> 01:44:17,739
know that were part of my production

2351
01:44:22,020 --> 01:44:20,320
team so it's big and it's obvious as you

2352
01:44:23,819 --> 01:44:22,030
can imagine right we stand out like a

2353
01:44:27,149 --> 01:44:23,829
sore thumb we get on one of the

2354
01:44:30,660 --> 01:44:27,159
elevators we're going up to the top

2355
01:44:34,649 --> 01:44:30,670
floor there and one of the guys on the

2356
01:44:37,020 --> 01:44:34,659
elevator and attendee says to me so who

2357
01:44:39,930 --> 01:44:37,030
are you and I tell him I said I'm here I

2358
01:44:44,640 --> 01:44:39,940
do this this and this and I'm here with

2359
01:44:47,339 --> 01:44:44,650
the History Channel a knee and and he

2360
01:44:48,509 --> 01:44:47,349
looked at me and said you are out of

2361
01:44:51,239 --> 01:44:48,519
your mind

2362
01:44:54,120 --> 01:44:51,249
do not talk to me don't talk to me don't

2363
01:44:56,880 --> 01:44:54,130
and I said but but and he

2364
01:44:59,700 --> 01:44:56,890
he said do not talk to me and the

2365
01:45:01,830 --> 01:44:59,710
elevator doors open and he took off it

2366
01:45:04,140 --> 01:45:01,840
was and I thought okay here we go this

2367
01:45:06,900 --> 01:45:04,150
is actually what this is gonna be like

2368
01:45:10,890 --> 01:45:06,910
and it was it was a rough road man

2369
01:45:15,840 --> 01:45:10,900
we were we were alienated I mean we were

2370
01:45:19,800 --> 01:45:15,850
forced off into a corner and were what's

2371
01:45:21,810 --> 01:45:19,810
the word shunned you know well yeah and

2372
01:45:23,790 --> 01:45:21,820
I should I should I should I should note

2373
01:45:26,640 --> 01:45:23,800
that you know my assessment I gave you

2374
01:45:28,440 --> 01:45:26,650
minutes earlier in some cases like with

2375
01:45:31,500 --> 01:45:28,450
documentary film crews that that is an

2376
01:45:32,640 --> 01:45:31,510
attack that the FBI has used they used

2377
01:45:35,970 --> 01:45:32,650
it for instance type Lincoln in the

2378
01:45:37,860 --> 01:45:35,980
bundy affair you know faking of a

2379
01:45:39,330 --> 01:45:37,870
documentary production so it's possible

2380
01:45:40,920 --> 01:45:39,340
that someone said oh this must be

2381
01:45:42,420 --> 01:45:40,930
another FBI thing it's possible they're

2382
01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:42,430
just they're just nuts Andrew that's

2383
01:45:46,530 --> 01:45:44,770
also very very very it's a real

2384
01:45:48,060 --> 01:45:46,540
possibility we have to explore but uh

2385
01:45:49,860 --> 01:45:48,070
you know that there's there's there's

2386
01:45:51,240 --> 01:45:49,870
very good reasons sometimes for them to

2387
01:45:53,490 --> 01:45:51,250
be cautious in sometimes there's not so

2388
01:45:56,910 --> 01:45:53,500
good reasons but things like things like

2389
01:45:59,400 --> 01:45:56,920
hope things like death Don even the ones

2390
01:46:01,590 --> 01:45:59,410
who there aren't there as intelligence

2391
01:46:03,990 --> 01:46:01,600
agency there to recruit there is a great

2392
01:46:05,490 --> 01:46:04,000
deal of informants in that community

2393
01:46:07,080 --> 01:46:05,500
special especially hackers I've seen

2394
01:46:08,520 --> 01:46:07,090
estimates that I don't think he can

2395
01:46:09,930 --> 01:46:08,530
really ever come to a really useful

2396
01:46:12,270 --> 01:46:09,940
estimate but I've seen estimates that

2397
01:46:14,160 --> 01:46:12,280
strike me as as true

2398
01:46:16,170 --> 01:46:14,170
based on my experience that you know

2399
01:46:18,510 --> 01:46:16,180
some quarter of the people you might

2400
01:46:19,800 --> 01:46:18,520
term hackers criminal hackers are

2401
01:46:22,950 --> 01:46:19,810
associated with the government in some

2402
01:46:24,810 --> 01:46:22,960
secret capacity now that's it matters

2403
01:46:26,550 --> 01:46:24,820
with the definition itself obviously is

2404
01:46:27,750 --> 01:46:26,560
a big factor there but the bottom line

2405
01:46:29,340 --> 01:46:27,760
is that this is a community that's

2406
01:46:30,570 --> 01:46:29,350
fraught through with paranoia and that

2407
01:46:33,060 --> 01:46:30,580
obviously hasn't gotten better in the

2408
01:46:36,090 --> 01:46:33,070
past five or six years yeah you know the

2409
01:46:38,640 --> 01:46:36,100
the famous game right spot the Fed you

2410
01:46:41,010 --> 01:46:38,650
know and getting that t-shirt is a badge

2411
01:46:42,630 --> 01:46:41,020
of honor we'll talk about that in just a

2412
01:46:44,010 --> 01:46:42,640
bit let's go back to the phones hi

2413
01:46:47,430 --> 01:46:44,020
you're live on fade to black say hi to

2414
01:46:50,220 --> 01:46:47,440
bear brown who's calling oh this is

2415
01:46:53,580 --> 01:46:50,230
Casper parks first thank you for

2416
01:46:56,640 --> 01:46:53,590
everything you've done I recall back in

2417
01:46:59,640 --> 01:46:56,650
the day when you know the half Stratford

2418
01:47:01,890 --> 01:46:59,650
in trapwire popped up which was a mass

2419
01:47:04,260 --> 01:47:01,900
surveillance with cameras and we look

2420
01:47:07,459 --> 01:47:04,270
now what's going on in China with that

2421
01:47:09,580 --> 01:47:07,469
and was what Amazon was

2422
01:47:12,250 --> 01:47:09,590
we're in law enforcement is doing and

2423
01:47:14,540 --> 01:47:12,260
Florida so we're risking that come to

2424
01:47:17,810 --> 01:47:14,550
patrician yells come coming out to be

2425
01:47:19,339 --> 01:47:17,820
armed as you see if you had any if you

2426
01:47:22,339 --> 01:47:19,349
think I was gonna get a lot worse now as

2427
01:47:24,290 --> 01:47:22,349
as we go forward certainly in large part

2428
01:47:27,140 --> 01:47:24,300
because but that's with that trap our

2429
01:47:29,750 --> 01:47:27,150
situation in particular the press was

2430
01:47:32,029 --> 01:47:29,760
not able to assess that in a reasonable

2431
01:47:33,410 --> 01:47:32,039
way as in that came out of the Stratfor

2432
01:47:35,089 --> 01:47:33,420
emails at some point there was a couple

2433
01:47:36,830 --> 01:47:35,099
of articles one of the articles that was

2434
01:47:39,620 --> 01:47:36,840
in The New York Times and they quoted

2435
01:47:42,109 --> 01:47:39,630
two people one was a unnamed homeland

2436
01:47:43,969 --> 01:47:42,119
security staffer who said oh it's not a

2437
01:47:45,770 --> 01:47:43,979
big deal I mean basically said that and

2438
01:47:48,109 --> 01:47:45,780
the other one was a guy with the ACLU

2439
01:47:51,620 --> 01:47:48,119
who I don't think really understood what

2440
01:47:52,879 --> 01:47:51,630
was being asked of him and so that tone

2441
01:47:55,219 --> 01:47:52,889
was said early on and you had people

2442
01:47:57,520 --> 01:47:55,229
like Adrienne chin at Gawker back then

2443
01:47:59,419 --> 01:47:57,530
who's always been kind of a goofy fellow

2444
01:48:00,529 --> 01:47:59,429
you know just saying oh this is boring

2445
01:48:02,959 --> 01:48:00,539
this is nothing which he says about

2446
01:48:04,399 --> 01:48:02,969
everything obviously now we know and

2447
01:48:05,569 --> 01:48:04,409
that was my big problem back then with

2448
01:48:07,040 --> 01:48:05,579
that particular issue this is right

2449
01:48:09,379 --> 01:48:07,050
before I went to prison I was talking a

2450
01:48:11,330 --> 01:48:09,389
lot about how how badly that had been

2451
01:48:13,009 --> 01:48:11,340
bashed because obviously facial

2452
01:48:14,299 --> 01:48:13,019
recognition it's not something really

2453
01:48:16,660 --> 01:48:14,309
exotic it's something we've thought

2454
01:48:18,739 --> 01:48:16,670
about envisioned for years and years

2455
01:48:20,299 --> 01:48:18,749
yeah and it wasn't something interested

2456
01:48:22,009 --> 01:48:20,309
in me in particular compare some of

2457
01:48:23,299 --> 01:48:22,019
these other things involving propaganda

2458
01:48:26,419 --> 01:48:23,309
and disinformation that I'm much more

2459
01:48:27,799 --> 01:48:26,429
interested in but it was definitely a it

2460
01:48:30,020 --> 01:48:27,809
was definitely something to look into

2461
01:48:32,089 --> 01:48:30,030
and obviously the you go back and look

2462
01:48:34,040 --> 01:48:32,099
at articles back then sort of mocking

2463
01:48:35,479 --> 01:48:34,050
those who are worried about it well

2464
01:48:39,379 --> 01:48:35,489
that's just one more thing in which I

2465
01:48:40,339 --> 01:48:39,389
think the we were right that that's

2466
01:48:42,890 --> 01:48:40,349
something that was going to come into

2467
01:48:44,390 --> 01:48:42,900
play very soon it's already being used a

2468
01:48:45,859 --> 01:48:44,400
number of places I mean the tread the

2469
01:48:48,459 --> 01:48:45,869
tripod thing itself is being used in the

2470
01:48:52,399 --> 01:48:48,469
US the company that wrote that

2471
01:48:54,469 --> 01:48:52,409
essentially overseas that is cubic which

2472
01:48:55,819 --> 01:48:54,479
is a huge firm that even a lot of

2473
01:48:58,129 --> 01:48:55,829
security people haven't heard of a lot

2474
01:49:00,259 --> 01:48:58,139
of security journalists which also

2475
01:49:01,939 --> 01:49:00,269
oversaw like there are always subsidiary

2476
01:49:03,919 --> 01:49:01,949
companies that they hide their

2477
01:49:06,200 --> 01:49:03,929
relationship to oftentimes successfully

2478
01:49:08,750 --> 01:49:06,210
except when when we find the tax filings

2479
01:49:10,310 --> 01:49:08,760
that prove they own them they were the

2480
01:49:11,870 --> 01:49:10,320
ones that won the SEC comp contract for

2481
01:49:14,509 --> 01:49:11,880
persona Management something I alluded

2482
01:49:18,100 --> 01:49:14,519
to earlier it's the online fake people

2483
01:49:20,629 --> 01:49:18,110
you can read about out there there are

2484
01:49:21,020 --> 01:49:20,639
that's the other big issue here and

2485
01:49:23,210 --> 01:49:21,030
that's

2486
01:49:26,030 --> 01:49:23,220
even when you find these secrets even

2487
01:49:28,400 --> 01:49:26,040
when you are already a journalist and

2488
01:49:30,230 --> 01:49:28,410
are known for investigating these issues

2489
01:49:32,540 --> 01:49:30,240
and have been successful in them it's

2490
01:49:33,890 --> 01:49:32,550
still hard to get editors and producers

2491
01:49:36,740 --> 01:49:33,900
who don't really care we don't

2492
01:49:38,780 --> 01:49:36,750
understand it to see the big picture and

2493
01:49:40,490 --> 01:49:38,790
so getting getting that information is

2494
01:49:42,280 --> 01:49:40,500
half the battle the other half is

2495
01:49:45,530 --> 01:49:42,290
getting the press to do its job

2496
01:49:49,190 --> 01:49:45,540
III want to jump in Casper is still on

2497
01:49:51,820 --> 01:49:49,200
the line and another question okay well

2498
01:49:54,830 --> 01:49:51,830
I wanted to let Barrett know that

2499
01:49:56,960 --> 01:49:54,840
Casper's an author and a great author by

2500
01:49:58,190 --> 01:49:56,970
the way and you should check out some of

2501
01:50:01,370 --> 01:49:58,200
the stuff I'll send you his books

2502
01:50:04,580 --> 01:50:01,380
Barrett but what I wanted I wanted to

2503
01:50:08,330 --> 01:50:04,590
ask a question and have Caspar hear the

2504
01:50:13,400 --> 01:50:08,340
answer Barrett your your writing style

2505
01:50:17,630 --> 01:50:13,410
is something that is for me very fluid

2506
01:50:19,850 --> 01:50:17,640
and is it something that is it your

2507
01:50:20,780 --> 01:50:19,860
brain directly connected to your

2508
01:50:23,510 --> 01:50:20,790
fingertips

2509
01:50:25,400 --> 01:50:23,520
is it very is it fluid I mean is it just

2510
01:50:29,060 --> 01:50:25,410
flow out of you or do you have to work

2511
01:50:30,950 --> 01:50:29,070
at it well I started writing I had some

2512
01:50:33,380 --> 01:50:30,960
internships at newspapers when I was 15

2513
01:50:35,270 --> 01:50:33,390
and 16 in Mexico and Dallas and then got

2514
01:50:38,150 --> 01:50:35,280
some freelance gigs by the time that I

2515
01:50:41,240 --> 01:50:38,160
got to University of Texas and I quickly

2516
01:50:42,680 --> 01:50:41,250
I quit I got a grunting job for AOL and

2517
01:50:44,120 --> 01:50:42,690
so for them back in this back in the

2518
01:50:45,320 --> 01:50:44,130
tooth back in 2000 when there was all

2519
01:50:47,120 --> 01:50:45,330
this money to be thrown around for

2520
01:50:49,070 --> 01:50:47,130
online contents and then that tried up

2521
01:50:50,840 --> 01:50:49,080
for a while I was writing about women's

2522
01:50:52,550 --> 01:50:50,850
shoe stores I was writing about 30

2523
01:50:54,140 --> 01:50:52,560
different tex-mex restaurants in Austin

2524
01:50:56,600 --> 01:50:54,150
and having to differentiate each one I

2525
01:50:58,540 --> 01:50:56,610
was writing 40,000 words on the band's

2526
01:51:00,170 --> 01:50:58,550
at South by Southwest and I had no idea

2527
01:51:03,350 --> 01:51:00,180
what they sounded like

2528
01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:03,360
and so that was that was worse than

2529
01:51:08,390 --> 01:51:06,570
prison you know it's something you did

2530
01:51:10,040 --> 01:51:08,400
something that you develop you know just

2531
01:51:12,500 --> 01:51:10,050
like with riding a bicycle or becoming a

2532
01:51:14,000 --> 01:51:12,510
ninja or anything or anything else it's

2533
01:51:16,490 --> 01:51:14,010
just something that is now ingrained

2534
01:51:19,430 --> 01:51:16,500
into my neurons I suppose yeah because

2535
01:51:22,490 --> 01:51:19,440
it sounds exactly like you speak or it

2536
01:51:23,300 --> 01:51:22,500
did no it reads like you speak it's the

2537
01:51:26,660 --> 01:51:23,310
wrong way to put it

2538
01:51:30,290 --> 01:51:26,670
Kaspar you had one more question right I

2539
01:51:33,470 --> 01:51:30,300
I know that no harm had I think it was a

2540
01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:33,480
twin brother was in a rock band security

2541
01:51:38,390 --> 01:51:34,890
I heard the band was doing a few

2542
01:51:41,450 --> 01:51:38,400
about that and when Harmon had his or

2543
01:51:43,550 --> 01:51:41,460
had this trial er the question about the

2544
01:51:47,870 --> 01:51:43,560
judges fall says some kind of financial

2545
01:51:50,450 --> 01:51:47,880
time to Stratford and oh yes a new judge

2546
01:51:53,840 --> 01:51:50,460
in that or not I'm not familiar with the

2547
01:51:55,970 --> 01:51:53,850
twin beau thing there it was pointed out

2548
01:51:57,410 --> 01:51:55,980
in fact Kevin Gallagher who runs who is

2549
01:51:58,880 --> 01:51:57,420
from scratch built this whole free

2550
01:52:00,590 --> 01:51:58,890
Barrett Brown apparatus when after I was

2551
01:52:01,970 --> 01:52:00,600
arrested and managed to raise all this

2552
01:52:04,430 --> 01:52:01,980
money for my legal defense and managed

2553
01:52:08,120 --> 01:52:04,440
to sort of lobby the press and get them

2554
01:52:10,580 --> 01:52:08,130
to pay attention he he or someone else

2555
01:52:13,730 --> 01:52:10,590
noted and publicized the fact that Judge

2556
01:52:16,070 --> 01:52:13,740
Sam Lindsay's wife was on the board of

2557
01:52:18,680 --> 01:52:16,080
directors of one of these firms I can't

2558
01:52:22,040 --> 01:52:18,690
read which one but there was an arguable

2559
01:52:25,730 --> 01:52:22,050
conflict of interest that he I would say

2560
01:52:27,260 --> 01:52:25,740
you know if that is illicit if that is

2561
01:52:28,490 --> 01:52:27,270
something that rises to the level of he

2562
01:52:30,620 --> 01:52:28,500
should recuse himself which I don't

2563
01:52:31,670 --> 01:52:30,630
really have a strong opinion on it paled

2564
01:52:32,930 --> 01:52:31,680
in comparison to other things that

2565
01:52:34,310 --> 01:52:32,940
happened or in that case I mean the

2566
01:52:36,500 --> 01:52:34,320
Declaration of Independence was seized

2567
01:52:37,970 --> 01:52:36,510
from my apartment as evidence of a crime

2568
01:52:40,220 --> 01:52:37,980
I made sure to note that in my

2569
01:52:41,330 --> 01:52:40,230
sentencing hearing you know so he

2570
01:52:43,190 --> 01:52:41,340
eventually ordered you gotta give it

2571
01:52:45,230 --> 01:52:43,200
back I mean the whole thing was just so

2572
01:52:46,910 --> 01:52:45,240
vastly problematic that I really haven't

2573
01:52:48,860 --> 01:52:46,920
even thought that much about that

2574
01:52:50,930 --> 01:52:48,870
conflict of interest his big problem was

2575
01:52:53,650 --> 01:52:50,940
that he believes FBI agents when they go

2576
01:52:56,540 --> 01:52:53,660
on the stand and no one else does so

2577
01:53:00,800 --> 01:52:56,550
Casper thank you so much man when's the

2578
01:53:02,480 --> 01:53:00,810
when's your next book coming out oh god

2579
01:53:05,660 --> 01:53:02,490
I'm hoping sometime after the first of

2580
01:53:07,670 --> 01:53:05,670
the year yeah okay well I'm shooting for

2581
01:53:09,530 --> 01:53:07,680
that's a you and Barrett together

2582
01:53:10,640 --> 01:53:09,540
there you go all right I'll talk to you

2583
01:53:12,740 --> 01:53:10,650
soon nice trade you for answering my

2584
01:53:12,980 --> 01:53:12,750
questions about Thank You Casper thank

2585
01:53:15,370 --> 01:53:12,990
you

2586
01:53:18,320 --> 01:53:15,380
Thank You Casper have a great night and

2587
01:53:21,470 --> 01:53:18,330
I wanted to go back I've got like two

2588
01:53:26,920 --> 01:53:21,480
minutes but he brought up Aaron Schwartz

2589
01:53:31,340 --> 01:53:26,930
and again just just a tragic story

2590
01:53:35,240 --> 01:53:31,350
beyond words but most people today

2591
01:53:37,040 --> 01:53:35,250
because of the timing of everything and

2592
01:53:39,470 --> 01:53:37,050
how it went down they don't know the

2593
01:53:43,010 --> 01:53:39,480
Aaron Schwartz story or his impact on

2594
01:53:45,980 --> 01:53:43,020
the internet and his talent his talent

2595
01:53:48,410 --> 01:53:45,990
was beyond measure and when you think

2596
01:53:53,180 --> 01:53:48,420
about RSS and the other things

2597
01:53:56,090 --> 01:53:53,190
he was not only fundamental in but they

2598
01:54:00,110 --> 01:53:56,100
they killed him you know and they

2599
01:54:02,570 --> 01:54:00,120
literally ruined a 26 year old young man

2600
01:54:04,250 --> 01:54:02,580
that was one of the most talented period

2601
01:54:07,400 --> 01:54:04,260
and responsible for what we are doing

2602
01:54:11,090 --> 01:54:07,410
today on the Internet Aaron Swartz his

2603
01:54:12,919 --> 01:54:11,100
vision was expansive and you know I

2604
01:54:14,600 --> 01:54:12,929
spoke Aaron Schwartz day last year

2605
01:54:16,729 --> 01:54:14,610
that's actually where we unveiled part

2606
01:54:18,110 --> 01:54:16,739
of the pursuance project and we'll be

2607
01:54:19,370 --> 01:54:18,120
speaking again next year and they've

2608
01:54:21,770 --> 01:54:19,380
actually been very heavily involved in

2609
01:54:26,240 --> 01:54:21,780
this Kickstarter we have going on that

2610
01:54:28,580 --> 01:54:26,250
ends in three days by the way we're

2611
01:54:30,140 --> 01:54:28,590
trying to finish something that should

2612
01:54:33,530 --> 01:54:30,150
have happened already by building this

2613
01:54:35,030 --> 01:54:33,540
network he had he had very is you know

2614
01:54:36,709 --> 01:54:35,040
he was a specialist he was a technology

2615
01:54:38,720 --> 01:54:36,719
specialist and so some of his stuff is

2616
01:54:40,189 --> 01:54:38,730
beyond my purview but in the broad in

2617
01:54:43,610 --> 01:54:40,199
the main and I met him a couple times

2618
01:54:45,500 --> 01:54:43,620
online when he was gonna do some FOI

2619
01:54:47,810 --> 01:54:45,510
requests on that persona management

2620
01:54:48,979 --> 01:54:47,820
apparatus we were looking into and just

2621
01:54:50,270 --> 01:54:48,989
didn't really know much about him back

2622
01:54:52,490 --> 01:54:50,280
then it wasn't until he killed himself

2623
01:54:54,830 --> 01:54:52,500
and I was already in prison that I

2624
01:54:56,570 --> 01:54:54,840
learned who it was I've been talking to

2625
01:54:59,560 --> 01:54:56,580
and what this guy was capable of and

2626
01:55:04,970 --> 01:54:59,570
what we kind of lost thanks to the DOJ

2627
01:55:06,770 --> 01:55:04,980
it's an unbelievable story and okay

2628
01:55:10,700 --> 01:55:06,780
we're gonna take a break right here I

2629
01:55:14,840 --> 01:55:10,710
mean I when it comes this is the this is

2630
01:55:17,810 --> 01:55:14,850
what really disturbs me bear it when you

2631
01:55:21,350 --> 01:55:17,820
look at all of these individuals you

2632
01:55:26,240 --> 01:55:21,360
being one of course but how these lives

2633
01:55:28,520 --> 01:55:26,250
were were affected and and in some cases

2634
01:55:30,680 --> 01:55:28,530
tragically like Aaron who ended up

2635
01:55:33,169 --> 01:55:30,690
committing suicide because of these

2636
01:55:36,050 --> 01:55:33,179
threats of you know a million years in

2637
01:55:38,060 --> 01:55:36,060
in jail and millions of dollars in fines

2638
01:55:42,830 --> 01:55:38,070
and your parents and your reputation and

2639
01:55:44,540 --> 01:55:42,840
your family all over the internet and

2640
01:55:46,939 --> 01:55:44,550
and about the internet and about

2641
01:55:50,330 --> 01:55:46,949
decentralization and about being an

2642
01:55:52,459 --> 01:55:50,340
activist and that I think is is one of

2643
01:55:56,600 --> 01:55:52,469
the most saddest parts about all of all

2644
01:56:00,439 --> 01:55:56,610
of this for me personally it's important

2645
01:56:02,330 --> 01:56:00,449
to us that a portion of his vision be

2646
01:56:03,379 --> 01:56:02,340
realized in this project and that's

2647
01:56:07,010 --> 01:56:03,389
why you know with a lot of his

2648
01:56:08,209 --> 01:56:07,020
associates are involved here it's

2649
01:56:09,260 --> 01:56:08,219
important to a lot of people obviously

2650
01:56:10,820 --> 01:56:09,270
the more when you there's some

2651
01:56:12,109 --> 01:56:10,830
documentaries now about him so he'd so

2652
01:56:14,089 --> 01:56:12,119
hopefully he's gotten some wider

2653
01:56:16,010 --> 01:56:14,099
recognition not just for having been

2654
01:56:18,200 --> 01:56:16,020
someone who was unfairly targeted but

2655
01:56:22,450 --> 01:56:18,210
for someone who in being unfairly

2656
01:56:25,160 --> 01:56:22,460
targeted the the world lost out by that

2657
01:56:30,919 --> 01:56:25,170
and that's something that I think over

2658
01:56:34,399 --> 01:56:30,929
time he's going to be remembered as a

2659
01:56:36,950 --> 01:56:34,409
very pressured fellow who you know had

2660
01:56:39,589 --> 01:56:36,960
great potentials at the state as it has

2661
01:56:42,740 --> 01:56:39,599
it has throughout history crushed yeah

2662
01:56:46,580 --> 01:56:42,750
and every time you see RSS feed click

2663
01:56:49,700 --> 01:56:46,590
here that's Aaron Schwartz you know and

2664
01:56:52,750 --> 01:56:49,710
he was a kid when he wrote that and had

2665
01:56:55,010 --> 01:56:52,760
that vision a kid a kid a teenager

2666
01:56:56,899 --> 01:56:55,020
absolutely incredible take a break right

2667
01:56:59,510 --> 01:56:56,909
here our guest tonight Barrett Brown

2668
01:57:01,879 --> 01:56:59,520
he's here helping me take phone calls on

2669
01:57:03,290 --> 01:57:01,889
this very special Fator night and will

2670
01:57:07,160 --> 01:57:03,300
continue with your phone calls right

2671
01:57:08,720 --> 01:57:07,170
after this short break 3 2 3 8 2 5 5 0 4

2672
01:57:11,870 --> 01:57:08,730
5 I'm yours to be Church more with

2673
01:57:21,370 --> 01:57:11,880
Barrett and your calls next stay with me

2674
01:57:27,979 --> 01:57:24,649
this is kg are a digital broadcasting

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station Salt Lake City Utah Van Buren

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now there's angio prim it's a liquid

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2695
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log on now for a special radio offer

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and trending topics jgr a radio.com what

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can I say about the most popular tea on

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change to eat at get the tea calm a lot

2720
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2725
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hump try our products that get the tea

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calm and see for yourself you can send

2727
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2729
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2736
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2737
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calm let's get the t-dot-com

2738
02:00:08,719 --> 02:00:07,409
get the t.com get t.com did you know

2739
02:00:11,209 --> 02:00:08,729
that when you're on the road with

2740
02:00:13,250 --> 02:00:11,219
limited data or Wi-Fi available you can

2741
02:00:15,649 --> 02:00:13,260
still listen to every minute of fade to

2742
02:00:18,079 --> 02:00:15,659
black by just calling six oh five five

2743
02:00:20,540 --> 02:00:18,089
six two four four eight two no

2744
02:00:22,879 --> 02:00:20,550
smartphone app or Internet needed it

2745
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saves your data plan and no extra cost

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if you have unlimited minutes just call

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six oh five five six two four four eight

2748
02:00:39,790 --> 02:00:30,839
two you can listen to me Jimmy Church on

2749
02:00:43,850 --> 02:00:41,480
[Music]

2750
02:00:48,570 --> 02:00:43,860
[Applause]

2751
02:00:51,200 --> 02:00:48,580
you wanna know a secret I love ponies I

2752
02:00:53,820 --> 02:00:51,210
really love ponies I'm serious I

2753
02:00:57,840 --> 02:00:53,830
couldn't stay sane without poor mr.

2754
02:01:02,950 --> 02:00:57,850
Brooks why fade to black because you

2755
02:01:06,950 --> 02:01:05,030
this is fade to black

2756
02:01:10,640 --> 02:01:06,960
with Jimmy Church on the game changer

2757
02:01:12,990 --> 02:01:10,650
radio network and kgr a the global radio

2758
02:01:25,839 --> 02:01:13,000
alliance

2759
02:01:27,649 --> 02:01:25,849
[Music]

2760
02:01:32,060 --> 02:01:27,659
all right welcome back

2761
02:01:34,160 --> 02:01:32,070
fade to black Fator nights fade to black

2762
02:01:36,049 --> 02:01:34,170
I'm the game changer Network in kg RA

2763
02:01:39,649 --> 02:01:36,059
the planet you can follow me on twitter

2764
02:01:42,229 --> 02:01:39,659
i'm your host jimmy church at JH radio

2765
02:01:44,859 --> 02:01:42,239
simple and you can also follow Baird

2766
02:01:47,779 --> 02:01:44,869
Brown our guests at Barrett Brown

2767
02:01:51,649 --> 02:01:47,789
underscore and we're taking calls the

2768
02:01:53,739 --> 02:01:51,659
lines are open 3 2 3 8 2 5 5 0 4 or 5

2769
02:01:57,950 --> 02:01:53,749
now bear before I get back to the phones

2770
02:01:59,919 --> 02:01:57,960
I am going to after the this next couple

2771
02:02:04,910 --> 02:01:59,929
of phone calls before we get to the end

2772
02:02:09,109 --> 02:02:04,920
I'm going to ask you a couple of UFO

2773
02:02:11,359 --> 02:02:09,119
questions and it's it's about the

2774
02:02:13,640 --> 02:02:11,369
current state of the mass media it's not

2775
02:02:16,279 --> 02:02:13,650
going to be what you expect but don't

2776
02:02:18,020 --> 02:02:16,289
let me forget to get this in okay I

2777
02:02:19,609 --> 02:02:18,030
don't want I don't want it to get away

2778
02:02:21,410 --> 02:02:19,619
from you let's go back to the phones

2779
02:02:23,270 --> 02:02:21,420
hi you're live I'm paid to block who's

2780
02:02:24,950 --> 02:02:23,280
calling yes

2781
02:02:27,259 --> 02:02:24,960
good evening Jimmy this is Phil

2782
02:02:30,739 --> 02:02:27,269
Christopher's in the Pacific Northwest

2783
02:02:34,370 --> 02:02:30,749
I feel good evening Barrett

2784
02:02:37,040 --> 02:02:34,380
so mr. Brown my question for you is do

2785
02:02:38,509 --> 02:02:37,050
you feel that there is actually still a

2786
02:02:43,040 --> 02:02:38,519
Fourth Estate that's actually

2787
02:02:45,160 --> 02:02:43,050
functioning in this admittedly

2788
02:02:49,310 --> 02:02:45,170
dysfunctional government

2789
02:02:51,500 --> 02:02:49,320
well it's question absolutely to some

2790
02:02:53,540 --> 02:02:51,510
extent I mean there's still things being

2791
02:02:55,100 --> 02:02:53,550
properly done here and there there are

2792
02:02:57,319 --> 02:02:55,110
good journalists who know what they're

2793
02:03:00,410 --> 02:02:57,329
doing some of them are younger some of

2794
02:03:01,520 --> 02:03:00,420
them have old school you know people

2795
02:03:03,169 --> 02:03:01,530
who've been around awhile and if have

2796
02:03:04,819 --> 02:03:03,179
developed talents for investigative

2797
02:03:06,890 --> 02:03:04,829
journalism I've seen it happen I've

2798
02:03:10,759 --> 02:03:06,900
worked with many of them but on the

2799
02:03:12,799 --> 02:03:10,769
whole it is not up to the task of

2800
02:03:15,049 --> 02:03:12,809
serving as our central nervous system

2801
02:03:17,689 --> 02:03:15,059
for a complex 21st century Imperial

2802
02:03:19,009 --> 02:03:17,699
Republic it's just not and that should

2803
02:03:20,839 --> 02:03:19,019
be of concern to anyone whether or not

2804
02:03:22,009 --> 02:03:20,849
you support the Imperial Republic

2805
02:03:24,709 --> 02:03:22,019
whether you know we're ghosts of how you

2806
02:03:27,649 --> 02:03:24,719
think about the u.s. it is not a good

2807
02:03:29,239 --> 02:03:27,659
thing to have a media infrastructure

2808
02:03:34,339 --> 02:03:29,249
that I think still thinks pretty highly

2809
02:03:36,270 --> 02:03:34,349
of itself by all things because to the

2810
02:03:38,400 --> 02:03:36,280
extent that they are worthwhile

2811
02:03:40,110 --> 02:03:38,410
they are to some extent when they get

2812
02:03:41,490 --> 02:03:40,120
things wrong and don't and don't deal

2813
02:03:43,590 --> 02:03:41,500
with those things and that this is one

2814
02:03:45,300 --> 02:03:43,600
of my main focuses before I got involved

2815
02:03:47,760 --> 02:03:45,310
Anonymous was immediate media criticism

2816
02:03:50,670 --> 02:03:47,770
that was my profession essentially and

2817
02:03:52,710 --> 02:03:50,680
it's still kind of is there is there is

2818
02:03:54,090 --> 02:03:52,720
no negative feedback for the most part

2819
02:03:55,620 --> 02:03:54,100
in the system as then you can be a

2820
02:03:56,490 --> 02:03:55,630
columnist like Thomas Friedman or

2821
02:03:59,130 --> 02:03:56,500
Charles Krauthammer

2822
02:04:00,860 --> 02:03:59,140
and you can if you if you go back and

2823
02:04:03,300 --> 02:04:00,870
read their output in the last 15 years

2824
02:04:05,280 --> 02:04:03,310
20 years even you'll notice that they

2825
02:04:07,590 --> 02:04:05,290
tend to get their predictions absolutely

2826
02:04:09,480 --> 02:04:07,600
wrong and they get away with it because

2827
02:04:11,670 --> 02:04:09,490
first one thing people rarely go back

2828
02:04:13,830 --> 02:04:11,680
and read old columns by these Pulitzer

2829
02:04:15,000 --> 02:04:13,840
Prize winners and second of all the

2830
02:04:16,770 --> 02:04:15,010
people at Washington Post in new york

2831
02:04:18,950 --> 02:04:16,780
times don't necessarily care these are

2832
02:04:21,270 --> 02:04:18,960
celebrity colonists they have a name

2833
02:04:23,640 --> 02:04:21,280
their output the action whether or not

2834
02:04:26,130 --> 02:04:23,650
it affects us for better or good is

2835
02:04:27,300 --> 02:04:26,140
decided beside the point to them and

2836
02:04:28,740 --> 02:04:27,310
most of them don't have any idea they

2837
02:04:29,880 --> 02:04:28,750
don't they don't know one way the other

2838
02:04:31,530 --> 02:04:29,890
if these are valuable calm with

2839
02:04:34,650 --> 02:04:31,540
colonists if they were wrong about every

2840
02:04:36,810 --> 02:04:34,660
single war in the past 20 years even

2841
02:04:39,060 --> 02:04:36,820
down to the specifics in some cases and

2842
02:04:42,150 --> 02:04:39,070
are still considered by other big

2843
02:04:43,920 --> 02:04:42,160
mainstream colonists as military experts

2844
02:04:46,350 --> 02:04:43,930
for instance so any other industry that

2845
02:04:48,600 --> 02:04:46,360
works like that would fail the media is

2846
02:04:53,280 --> 02:04:48,610
able to kind of fail without it being as

2847
02:04:55,500 --> 02:04:53,290
clear of the extent as it would be if it

2848
02:04:56,460 --> 02:04:55,510
was a mechanic fixing your car that

2849
02:04:58,470 --> 02:04:56,470
that's the very much the nature of

2850
02:04:59,820 --> 02:04:58,480
politics in sociology in general is that

2851
02:05:02,040 --> 02:04:59,830
is that those are the places you can be

2852
02:05:03,780 --> 02:05:02,050
utterly wrong utterly unreasonable and

2853
02:05:04,830 --> 02:05:03,790
still be successful and so that's a

2854
02:05:06,180 --> 02:05:04,840
problem and it's one of the things that

2855
02:05:09,300 --> 02:05:06,190
we're trying to fix the pursuance by

2856
02:05:10,920 --> 02:05:09,310
kind of providing this apparatus for

2857
02:05:12,480 --> 02:05:10,930
crowdsource research among other things

2858
02:05:13,890 --> 02:05:12,490
and trying to get more journalists to

2859
02:05:16,080 --> 02:05:13,900
use this and tell them and show them

2860
02:05:17,640 --> 02:05:16,090
look this works having crowdsourcing

2861
02:05:19,320 --> 02:05:17,650
works under certain conditions and we

2862
02:05:21,660 --> 02:05:19,330
know a little bit about it you can find

2863
02:05:23,760 --> 02:05:21,670
out more experimenting with it let's

2864
02:05:25,290 --> 02:05:23,770
make your job easier so that's that's

2865
02:05:26,580 --> 02:05:25,300
the solution I've been looking at for 10

2866
02:05:28,830 --> 02:05:26,590
years and that's that's what pursuance

2867
02:05:30,570 --> 02:05:28,840
really grew out of and it's something we

2868
02:05:32,430 --> 02:05:30,580
can build upon and meanwhile we can

2869
02:05:34,050 --> 02:05:32,440
build an independent press outlets as

2870
02:05:36,120 --> 02:05:34,060
has been done successfully in some cases

2871
02:05:37,590 --> 02:05:36,130
and expand their reach and that's that's

2872
02:05:43,010 --> 02:05:37,600
happened too so that's why I would say

2873
02:05:49,390 --> 02:05:43,020
it's not entirely it's not entirely

2874
02:05:51,760 --> 02:05:49,400
broken and excuse me it seems to

2875
02:05:54,459 --> 02:05:51,770
you didn't say it I will so I'll state

2876
02:05:58,419 --> 02:05:54,469
it it's come down to not about being

2877
02:06:00,550 --> 02:05:58,429
right or wrong but it's about clicks yes

2878
02:06:01,959 --> 02:06:00,560
that's that's a huge part of that's what

2879
02:06:04,540 --> 02:06:01,969
the people want now for the most part

2880
02:06:06,669 --> 02:06:04,550
you know that's that's a a cardinal sin

2881
02:06:08,350 --> 02:06:06,679
of humanity that a great deal of the

2882
02:06:11,950 --> 02:06:08,360
American public has fallen insu of

2883
02:06:14,140 --> 02:06:11,960
tribalism caring less about principles

2884
02:06:15,939 --> 02:06:14,150
and more about you know some alleged

2885
02:06:19,600 --> 02:06:15,949
long-term goal that you that you feel

2886
02:06:22,600 --> 02:06:19,610
requires you know hypocrisy

2887
02:06:26,050 --> 02:06:22,610
you know obscurantism the whole what

2888
02:06:29,290 --> 02:06:26,060
Europe was run on of spiritism for a

2889
02:06:32,350 --> 02:06:29,300
long time we call the Dark Ages and you

2890
02:06:34,720 --> 02:06:32,360
know it's it's it is not a game it's the

2891
02:06:35,979 --> 02:06:34,730
trend that most frightens me there's all

2892
02:06:39,220 --> 02:06:35,989
kinds of things that can go wrong that

2893
02:06:42,040 --> 02:06:39,230
we can fix but when the media has has

2894
02:06:43,240 --> 02:06:42,050
severe systemic deficits that are not

2895
02:06:45,430 --> 02:06:43,250
going to be addressed from the inside

2896
02:06:46,899 --> 02:06:45,440
and when the public itself for the most

2897
02:06:51,189 --> 02:06:46,909
part even if there are things I agree

2898
02:06:53,680 --> 02:06:51,199
with them about you know the it's it's

2899
02:06:54,640 --> 02:06:53,690
frightening the extent of it let's go to

2900
02:06:55,959 --> 02:06:54,650
the phones

2901
02:06:59,500 --> 02:06:55,969
hi you're live on fader block who's

2902
02:07:03,180 --> 02:06:59,510
calling say how do bear brown bear it hi

2903
02:07:07,209 --> 02:07:03,190
how are you this is a Isaac from Anaheim

2904
02:07:09,280 --> 02:07:07,219
excellent call you make so many good

2905
02:07:12,130 --> 02:07:09,290
points let me tell you I was very

2906
02:07:16,750 --> 02:07:12,140
involved in Hollywood okay I can't tell

2907
02:07:20,970 --> 02:07:16,760
you what I do but ever since the day

2908
02:07:26,110 --> 02:07:20,980
that Trump was elected I was on a set

2909
02:07:27,939 --> 02:07:26,120
somewhere and I mean these people were

2910
02:07:30,430 --> 02:07:27,949
not acting rationally these people were

2911
02:07:33,520 --> 02:07:30,440
crying there was like like babies having

2912
02:07:36,310 --> 02:07:33,530
tantrums these people in Hollywood have

2913
02:07:43,020 --> 02:07:36,320
been in control for so long with their

2914
02:07:47,140 --> 02:07:43,030
mind-control MKULTRA CIA FBI deep state

2915
02:07:49,030 --> 02:07:47,150
manipulation that that is really what

2916
02:07:52,209 --> 02:07:49,040
bothers them right now and it's gonna

2917
02:07:54,729 --> 02:07:52,219
bother them as long as you know Trump is

2918
02:07:58,770 --> 02:07:54,739
in office right now these people knew

2919
02:08:00,700 --> 02:07:58,780
that they've had control of culture and

2920
02:08:02,620 --> 02:08:00,710
now they're starting to lose that

2921
02:08:03,190 --> 02:08:02,630
control because the Internet's taking

2922
02:08:05,410 --> 02:08:03,200
over

2923
02:08:07,390 --> 02:08:05,420
I mean they still have Netflix which is

2924
02:08:10,510 --> 02:08:07,400
part of their control paradigm they

2925
02:08:13,300 --> 02:08:10,520
still have China owning AMC Theaters

2926
02:08:16,510 --> 02:08:13,310
they have they basically the zionists

2927
02:08:22,060 --> 02:08:16,520
mixed with the Communists and the Saudi

2928
02:08:23,500 --> 02:08:22,070
wahabis are now the new axis of evil as

2929
02:08:26,500 --> 02:08:23,510
fortunately what aligned with that

2930
02:08:30,190 --> 02:08:26,510
that's a pretty interesting take and

2931
02:08:36,100 --> 02:08:30,200
thank you for that Isaac do you see well

2932
02:08:38,890 --> 02:08:36,110
okay I let me say this Trump had a

2933
02:08:42,640 --> 02:08:38,900
reality show for seven or eight years

2934
02:08:43,990 --> 02:08:42,650
and he got another show he is someone

2935
02:08:45,850 --> 02:08:44,000
who associates very closely with the

2936
02:08:47,950 --> 02:08:45,860
person that this caller with the people

2937
02:08:50,620 --> 02:08:47,960
that this call or uh attributes these

2938
02:08:52,420 --> 02:08:50,630
characteristics to so I would find it

2939
02:08:54,070 --> 02:08:52,430
very surprising if it turned out that

2940
02:08:55,840 --> 02:08:54,080
he's going to do the things that a lot

2941
02:08:58,210 --> 02:08:55,850
of the people for instance you follow q

2942
02:09:01,000 --> 02:08:58,220
and on think he's going to do there's

2943
02:09:05,470 --> 02:09:01,010
nothing in his history that that really

2944
02:09:07,630 --> 02:09:05,480
indicates that to anyone who's not just

2945
02:09:09,430 --> 02:09:07,640
looking for a silver clout the silver

2946
02:09:11,500 --> 02:09:09,440
lining this is think this is a guy with

2947
02:09:13,300 --> 02:09:11,510
a long documented history that you don't

2948
02:09:14,590 --> 02:09:13,310
have to depend on anyone anyone said

2949
02:09:17,350 --> 02:09:14,600
about him you can go and look at his

2950
02:09:19,510 --> 02:09:17,360
statements and I think it's kind of

2951
02:09:22,350 --> 02:09:19,520
unusual I think it's strange that he's

2952
02:09:24,400 --> 02:09:22,360
been attributed this anti-establishment

2953
02:09:26,560 --> 02:09:24,410
when he is a nice stylish but in the way

2954
02:09:28,270 --> 02:09:26,570
that he does he does has broken down a

2955
02:09:31,090 --> 02:09:28,280
lot of the frou-frou he's broken down a

2956
02:09:32,710 --> 02:09:31,100
lot of the the edifice which is helpful

2957
02:09:34,450 --> 02:09:32,720
to people like me obviously because that

2958
02:09:37,930 --> 02:09:34,460
edifice was really the only thing that

2959
02:09:40,720 --> 02:09:37,940
was convincing vague minded people that

2960
02:09:45,190 --> 02:09:40,730
this system that is is in great shape so

2961
02:09:47,200 --> 02:09:45,200
that's actually good again I the man he

2962
02:09:48,910 --> 02:09:47,210
himself has made pretty clear his

2963
02:09:50,320 --> 02:09:48,920
beliefs about individual rights he's

2964
02:09:52,510 --> 02:09:50,330
done it over and over again and I don't

2965
02:09:56,320 --> 02:09:52,520
see him as the hero who's going to come

2966
02:09:57,760 --> 02:09:56,330
and restore all of the the various

2967
02:09:59,980 --> 02:09:57,770
things that we were supposedly taken

2968
02:10:03,220 --> 02:09:59,990
from by you know these Hollywood people

2969
02:10:06,730 --> 02:10:03,230
or whoever yeah and and I understand the

2970
02:10:09,640 --> 02:10:06,740
call but there's another thing about

2971
02:10:11,800 --> 02:10:09,650
this that first off I don't do politics

2972
02:10:14,560 --> 02:10:11,810
on this show and one of the reasons why

2973
02:10:16,370 --> 02:10:14,570
I do the conspiracy of politics that

2974
02:10:18,680 --> 02:10:16,380
that's an easy road to go to

2975
02:10:21,169 --> 02:10:18,690
but the reason why I don't do politics

2976
02:10:25,760 --> 02:10:21,179
and especially more and more today is

2977
02:10:31,370 --> 02:10:25,770
that it absolutely divides and causes

2978
02:10:32,330 --> 02:10:31,380
anger I have an audience that is very

2979
02:10:35,330 --> 02:10:32,340
diverse

2980
02:10:38,149 --> 02:10:35,340
and I want them to stay together and and

2981
02:10:40,790 --> 02:10:38,159
as soon it today it just doesn't matter

2982
02:10:45,050 --> 02:10:40,800
the media has chosen the lines in the

2983
02:10:49,040 --> 02:10:45,060
sand and they enjoy the divide and

2984
02:10:51,560 --> 02:10:49,050
conquer rule that is that is so

2985
02:10:53,570 --> 02:10:51,570
prevalent and that it disturbs me so

2986
02:10:56,840 --> 02:10:53,580
when we talk about Trump we could say

2987
02:11:00,169 --> 02:10:56,850
the same thing about a Democrat the

2988
02:11:02,600 --> 02:11:00,179
democratically elected president I think

2989
02:11:04,810 --> 02:11:02,610
those same issues would be there and it

2990
02:11:07,010 --> 02:11:04,820
doesn't really matter so I just II

2991
02:11:09,350 --> 02:11:07,020
understand might my take on this

2992
02:11:11,750 --> 02:11:09,360
absolutely and it's a very reasonable

2993
02:11:14,000 --> 02:11:11,760
approach you know obviously that the key

2994
02:11:16,189 --> 02:11:14,010
thing is to assemble coalition's that

2995
02:11:18,340 --> 02:11:16,199
can do these things that no one that no

2996
02:11:22,459 --> 02:11:18,350
reasonable person who appreciates

2997
02:11:24,379 --> 02:11:22,469
individual rights in disagree on so we

2998
02:11:26,870 --> 02:11:24,389
can differ about what the causes are and

2999
02:11:28,640 --> 02:11:26,880
we can differ about you know the

3000
02:11:30,169 --> 02:11:28,650
particular people involved I happen not

3001
02:11:31,970 --> 02:11:30,179
to think for instance that it makes a

3002
02:11:33,919 --> 02:11:31,980
great deal of sense to say the Trump is

3003
02:11:36,260 --> 02:11:33,929
going to oppose the Zionists given what

3004
02:11:38,030 --> 02:11:36,270
he's actually done in Israel but again

3005
02:11:40,910 --> 02:11:38,040
you know it's just it's one of those

3006
02:11:42,890 --> 02:11:40,920
things where people sort themselves out

3007
02:11:44,419 --> 02:11:42,900
into effective groups that can do well

3008
02:11:46,760 --> 02:11:44,429
they can decide for themselves what

3009
02:11:48,320 --> 02:11:46,770
they're willing to agree with what

3010
02:11:51,140 --> 02:11:48,330
they're willing to agree to disagree on

3011
02:11:53,540 --> 02:11:51,150
and to the extent we get that right and

3012
02:11:56,200 --> 02:11:53,550
bring in people who you know who are

3013
02:11:58,129 --> 02:11:56,210
intellectually honest at the very least

3014
02:12:01,040 --> 02:11:58,139
then we can see these things being

3015
02:12:05,120 --> 02:12:01,050
addressed in ways that uh that I think

3016
02:12:07,910 --> 02:12:05,130
loose that overly broad ideology and

3017
02:12:10,760 --> 02:12:07,920
overly broad theories about what is

3018
02:12:12,560 --> 02:12:10,770
doing what doesn't help us do as much

3019
02:12:15,860 --> 02:12:12,570
it's not as effective as nuanced

3020
02:12:20,360 --> 02:12:15,870
thinking yeah and in those days those

3021
02:12:22,310 --> 02:12:20,370
days are gone in that if if you are in a

3022
02:12:25,610 --> 02:12:22,320
conversation it doesn't even have to be

3023
02:12:28,550 --> 02:12:25,620
on this show it could be at a restaurant

3024
02:12:31,070 --> 02:12:28,560
and somebody brings up Trump or brings

3025
02:12:31,940 --> 02:12:31,080
of Hillary you know somebody what I'm

3026
02:12:34,220 --> 02:12:31,950
out of here

3027
02:12:37,820 --> 02:12:34,230
you know and suddenly it's all this

3028
02:12:40,130 --> 02:12:37,830
anger where whatever happened to

3029
02:12:42,620 --> 02:12:40,140
listening and the other thing is it's

3030
02:12:44,480 --> 02:12:42,630
really a simple point this country is

3031
02:12:47,150 --> 02:12:44,490
built on people being different and

3032
02:12:49,220 --> 02:12:47,160
that's what made is so cool that's what

3033
02:12:51,590 --> 02:12:49,230
made it so great everybody was different

3034
02:12:55,490 --> 02:12:51,600
and we collectively just came together

3035
02:12:57,920 --> 02:12:55,500
and and and because of that it's what

3036
02:13:00,980 --> 02:12:57,930
made this country's Foundation so strong

3037
02:13:04,220 --> 02:13:00,990
and now nobody wants to even contemplate

3038
02:13:06,560 --> 02:13:04,230
the past and what what made this country

3039
02:13:09,770 --> 02:13:06,570
great to begin with it's a it's a

3040
02:13:12,230 --> 02:13:09,780
fascinating thing to see happen and

3041
02:13:13,880 --> 02:13:12,240
happen so so quickly in this country

3042
02:13:15,470 --> 02:13:13,890
let's go back to the phones hi you're

3043
02:13:20,150 --> 02:13:15,480
live I'm paid to Black's a how to bear a

3044
02:13:24,800 --> 02:13:20,160
brown hello Gabriel hey Gabriel hello

3045
02:13:27,640 --> 02:13:24,810
everyone I you know I'm sitting here

3046
02:13:30,860 --> 02:13:27,650
listening and I'm just kind of like I

3047
02:13:34,730 --> 02:13:30,870
mean you know ultimately like blown away

3048
02:13:39,170 --> 02:13:34,740
but at the same time it's like I feel

3049
02:13:44,060 --> 02:13:39,180
like your side of the community as far

3050
02:13:46,550 --> 02:13:44,070
as breaking open the secrecy and making

3051
02:13:50,120 --> 02:13:46,560
sure people understand what is being

3052
02:13:52,550 --> 02:13:50,130
hidden is very important and it's kind

3053
02:13:54,950 --> 02:13:52,560
of like how I feel from from like my

3054
02:13:58,580 --> 02:13:54,960
side of the fence as far as ufology and

3055
02:14:01,220 --> 02:13:58,590
UFOs go because we are you know trying

3056
02:14:04,820 --> 02:14:01,230
to get all these these secrets broken

3057
02:14:07,130 --> 02:14:04,830
open and and get everybody to see and

3058
02:14:10,040 --> 02:14:07,140
hear and understand what a lot of us

3059
02:14:12,740 --> 02:14:10,050
know to be true and I think that you you

3060
02:14:14,620 --> 02:14:12,750
kind of bring that that side of the of

3061
02:14:18,140 --> 02:14:14,630
the you know the hacker quote-unquote

3062
02:14:20,270 --> 02:14:18,150
side of it it kind of it almost feels

3063
02:14:22,520 --> 02:14:20,280
like to me like like we're going to be

3064
02:14:24,800 --> 02:14:22,530
an amalgamation where it's all going to

3065
02:14:27,110 --> 02:14:24,810
come together from all you know and and

3066
02:14:29,270 --> 02:14:27,120
other different genres as well because

3067
02:14:32,000 --> 02:14:29,280
there's so much hidden from us and I

3068
02:14:34,820 --> 02:14:32,010
kind of wonder how you feel about you

3069
02:14:38,420 --> 02:14:34,830
know the kind of UFO phenomenon as it as

3070
02:14:39,489 --> 02:14:38,430
it you know as perspective to to like

3071
02:14:42,249 --> 02:14:39,499
just secrecy

3072
02:14:44,469 --> 02:14:42,259
as far as in general for what the

3073
02:14:46,659 --> 02:14:44,479
government is hidden and corporations

3074
02:14:49,149 --> 02:14:46,669
have hidden and all these things that

3075
02:14:51,869 --> 02:14:49,159
they do I mean how how involved do you

3076
02:14:54,369 --> 02:14:51,879
feel UFOs and and ultimately

3077
02:14:57,249 --> 02:14:54,379
extraterrestrials

3078
02:15:00,579 --> 02:14:57,259
reflecting that it's never been at the

3079
02:15:03,939 --> 02:15:00,589
forefront of my thinking so in large

3080
02:15:06,369 --> 02:15:03,949
part because it's so inaccessible as in

3081
02:15:09,939 --> 02:15:06,379
it's for one thing it's not something

3082
02:15:14,949 --> 02:15:09,949
that I felt what as important as that

3083
02:15:16,329 --> 02:15:14,959
issue would be it's a transcendent

3084
02:15:19,119 --> 02:15:16,339
importance if we're alone in the

3085
02:15:21,699 --> 02:15:19,129
universe or not and and if not what

3086
02:15:23,739 --> 02:15:21,709
extent you know it's something that is

3087
02:15:25,209 --> 02:15:23,749
now taken very very seriously by people

3088
02:15:26,409 --> 02:15:25,219
who think about the long-term future of

3089
02:15:29,079 --> 02:15:26,419
humanity it's something where there's

3090
02:15:31,719 --> 02:15:29,089
there is a methodology that's been

3091
02:15:34,449 --> 02:15:31,729
composed you know by militaries and by

3092
02:15:35,979 --> 02:15:34,459
you know social scientists and by it

3093
02:15:37,779 --> 02:15:35,989
looks like a Brooking institution as you

3094
02:15:39,579 --> 02:15:37,789
probably know right it's something it's

3095
02:15:41,619 --> 02:15:39,589
been thought about and because and I

3096
02:15:44,259 --> 02:15:41,629
also what interests me most about it is

3097
02:15:46,989 --> 02:15:44,269
I like anything in which there is a

3098
02:15:51,909 --> 02:15:46,999
fundamental dispute I like I like to

3099
02:15:54,249 --> 02:15:51,919
figure out why some people are adverse

3100
02:15:56,379 --> 02:15:54,259
to certain kinds of theories why they're

3101
02:15:57,849 --> 02:15:56,389
just automatically adverse to it how

3102
02:15:59,439 --> 02:15:57,859
they came to that position whether or

3103
02:16:02,139 --> 02:15:59,449
not it's valid now in the cases of

3104
02:16:05,799 --> 02:16:02,149
people who for some reason are just

3105
02:16:08,139 --> 02:16:05,809
violently violently pronounced words are

3106
02:16:11,469 --> 02:16:08,149
very much opposed to you know the idea

3107
02:16:13,779 --> 02:16:11,479
of UFOs I've tuned I've tend to found

3108
02:16:15,819 --> 02:16:13,789
find that it seems to just emerge from

3109
02:16:17,019 --> 02:16:15,829
this this thing's they picked up sort of

3110
02:16:18,849 --> 02:16:17,029
vague ideas that it's just they

3111
02:16:20,229 --> 02:16:18,859
associate something with something silly

3112
02:16:21,729 --> 02:16:20,239
and then they just ride it off and

3113
02:16:24,609 --> 02:16:21,739
that's that's long actually applies very

3114
02:16:26,679 --> 02:16:24,619
much to what I do you know it's easier

3115
02:16:28,869 --> 02:16:26,689
now it's hard to remember how much more

3116
02:16:31,899 --> 02:16:28,879
difficult it was 2010 to talk about

3117
02:16:34,959 --> 02:16:31,909
large government apparatus that connect

3118
02:16:36,819 --> 02:16:34,969
in put out propaganda in very advanced

3119
02:16:37,929 --> 02:16:36,829
ways but luckily when we started

3120
02:16:40,179 --> 02:16:37,939
cracking open things like persona

3121
02:16:41,649 --> 02:16:40,189
management's and and now given that

3122
02:16:43,359 --> 02:16:41,659
everyone is very worried about BOTS

3123
02:16:44,919 --> 02:16:43,369
which which are very simple for a blunt

3124
02:16:46,240 --> 02:16:44,929
versions of persona management's which

3125
02:16:49,479 --> 02:16:46,250
is a very sophisticated way of running

3126
02:16:51,549 --> 02:16:49,489
as people you know we're now I think

3127
02:16:53,440 --> 02:16:51,559
it's easier to not just make the case

3128
02:16:57,430 --> 02:16:53,450
reasonably but to make the case in a way

3129
02:16:59,320 --> 02:16:57,440
except that you are never well served by

3130
02:17:02,530 --> 02:16:59,330
assuming that you know a great deal that

3131
02:17:05,320 --> 02:17:02,540
a specialist subject and so people who

3132
02:17:06,970 --> 02:17:05,330
do the actual legwork and the research

3133
02:17:09,970 --> 02:17:06,980
and all that and have informed opinions

3134
02:17:11,140 --> 02:17:09,980
across the board those are the people I

3135
02:17:13,480 --> 02:17:11,150
always respect and want to work with

3136
02:17:15,070 --> 02:17:13,490
regardless of what those beliefs might

3137
02:17:18,490 --> 02:17:15,080
be if they can defend them now I read a

3138
02:17:21,670 --> 02:17:18,500
book by Jack Jacques ballet oh really oh

3139
02:17:26,740 --> 02:17:21,680
yeah yeah again like I'm very interested

3140
02:17:28,780 --> 02:17:26,750
in you know what you might call the the

3141
02:17:30,760 --> 02:17:28,790
psychology of thought I mean I hope the

3142
02:17:32,380 --> 02:17:30,770
bad term the I mean I'm interested again

3143
02:17:34,080 --> 02:17:32,390
and how people come to the conclusions

3144
02:17:37,750 --> 02:17:34,090
they do and I'm also interested in very

3145
02:17:42,190 --> 02:17:37,760
unusual answers to these questions and

3146
02:17:44,230 --> 02:17:42,200
so not being hugely familiar with the

3147
02:17:46,709 --> 02:17:44,240
UFO literature I found was a very

3148
02:17:50,530 --> 02:17:46,719
interesting take you know that sort of

3149
02:17:52,300 --> 02:17:50,540
it was ultimately a agnostic take but it

3150
02:17:55,720 --> 02:17:52,310
was had very interesting two things to

3151
02:17:57,580 --> 02:17:55,730
say about the intelligence community and

3152
02:17:59,709 --> 02:17:57,590
the some of the organizations that back

3153
02:18:02,650 --> 02:17:59,719
in the 60s and 70s were proliferating

3154
02:18:06,130 --> 02:18:02,660
some which were very bizarre and why

3155
02:18:08,920 --> 02:18:06,140
they might exist and beyond so there's

3156
02:18:10,810 --> 02:18:08,930
there's plenty there that if I had more

3157
02:18:13,600 --> 02:18:10,820
time I would explore further

3158
02:18:14,500 --> 02:18:13,610
I've just been occupied with you know

3159
02:18:17,290 --> 02:18:14,510
dealing with the government here on

3160
02:18:20,380 --> 02:18:17,300
earth and and I I totally agree with you

3161
02:18:22,720 --> 02:18:20,390
because like for me you know I'm only 36

3162
02:18:26,020 --> 02:18:22,730
and I think but when I was younger like

3163
02:18:30,100 --> 02:18:26,030
my my dad was involved with underground

3164
02:18:34,060 --> 02:18:30,110
BBS's and you know just just kind of

3165
02:18:35,320 --> 02:18:34,070
underground computing in the very

3166
02:18:37,870 --> 02:18:35,330
beginning I mean he still writes

3167
02:18:41,230 --> 02:18:37,880
programs to this day but my mom at the

3168
02:18:44,680 --> 02:18:41,240
time worked for the DoD in finances and

3169
02:18:47,380 --> 02:18:44,690
so it was like she was giving she was

3170
02:18:48,820 --> 02:18:47,390
coming home and confiding in him these

3171
02:18:51,280 --> 02:18:48,830
things she was learning because she

3172
02:18:53,110 --> 02:18:51,290
worked under Dick Cheney and she was

3173
02:18:56,020 --> 02:18:53,120
learning all these things and seeing all

3174
02:18:58,000 --> 02:18:56,030
these these all the things going on that

3175
02:19:00,880 --> 02:18:58,010
she was just you know you know told the

3176
02:19:03,040 --> 02:19:00,890
process and passed forward whereas my

3177
02:19:04,959 --> 02:19:03,050
dad who was that logical you know

3178
02:19:07,370 --> 02:19:04,969
analytical deep thinker was like well

3179
02:19:09,200 --> 02:19:07,380
what why is it like this why

3180
02:19:11,330 --> 02:19:09,210
doing this how does how does this work

3181
02:19:13,700 --> 02:19:11,340
you know I mean all these things are

3182
02:19:16,370 --> 02:19:13,710
coming together so strangely so his

3183
02:19:18,169 --> 02:19:16,380
brain goes on this path where he can't

3184
02:19:21,259 --> 02:19:18,179
believe what's happening and how it's

3185
02:19:23,299 --> 02:19:21,269
going this way and my mom you know is

3186
02:19:26,089 --> 02:19:23,309
more of a spiritual kind of you know who

3187
02:19:28,129 --> 02:19:26,099
got me into extraterrestrial and

3188
02:19:31,129 --> 02:19:28,139
spirituality and kind of digging deeper

3189
02:19:33,410 --> 02:19:31,139
into what's actually real and the - you

3190
02:19:36,080 --> 02:19:33,420
know have been like you know a racing

3191
02:19:38,900 --> 02:19:36,090
path for me because at times I'm more

3192
02:19:40,790 --> 02:19:38,910
interested in in what information is

3193
02:19:43,009 --> 02:19:40,800
being hidden from us from just you know

3194
02:19:46,129 --> 02:19:43,019
like like your side of the fence because

3195
02:19:48,379 --> 02:19:46,139
that that is like it's like you said

3196
02:19:50,719 --> 02:19:48,389
it's it's easier to grasp and easier to

3197
02:19:53,240 --> 02:19:50,729
hold and first some of us who are only

3198
02:19:54,800 --> 02:19:53,250
focused on ufology like that other side

3199
02:19:56,510 --> 02:19:54,810
of it is just as important and you have

3200
02:19:58,639 --> 02:19:56,520
to understand it because it's like Jimmy

3201
02:20:01,130 --> 02:19:58,649
said where if those kind of subjects

3202
02:20:02,510 --> 02:20:01,140
come up and we just storm off because we

3203
02:20:05,510 --> 02:20:02,520
don't want to hear that there's a deep

3204
02:20:09,110 --> 02:20:05,520
state then we're we're totally missing

3205
02:20:11,150 --> 02:20:09,120
the the connections between all these

3206
02:20:13,550 --> 02:20:11,160
pieces because all of them are going to

3207
02:20:15,889 --> 02:20:13,560
come together and I feel and I wonder

3208
02:20:17,570 --> 02:20:15,899
how you feel that it is do you think all

3209
02:20:19,310 --> 02:20:17,580
these pieces once they come together are

3210
02:20:22,040 --> 02:20:19,320
going to break down this quote-unquote

3211
02:20:24,139 --> 02:20:22,050
wall and allow us to have the freedom

3212
02:20:29,030 --> 02:20:24,149
that we should have in this country that

3213
02:20:32,420 --> 02:20:29,040
kind of you know started as I can I

3214
02:20:37,360 --> 02:20:32,430
would actually be surprised if a major

3215
02:20:41,000 --> 02:20:37,370
revelation regarding UFOs led to a

3216
02:20:43,760 --> 02:20:41,010
comprehensive improved you know free or

3217
02:20:44,990 --> 02:20:43,770
better world I can see that the I think

3218
02:20:46,580 --> 02:20:45,000
the Brookings Institution back when they

3219
02:20:48,050 --> 02:20:46,590
first started looking at the issue and

3220
02:20:50,389 --> 02:20:48,060
other other groups that have had policy

3221
02:20:52,460 --> 02:20:50,399
also on UFOs for a long time

3222
02:20:53,719 --> 02:20:52,470
I think they that's their conclusion and

3223
02:20:55,460 --> 02:20:53,729
they it could be wrong and they record

3224
02:20:58,100 --> 02:20:55,470
that that presumably would be the reason

3225
02:20:59,810 --> 02:20:58,110
for having a UFO policy in the first

3226
02:21:01,850 --> 02:20:59,820
place is look is there's this huge thing

3227
02:21:05,120 --> 02:21:01,860
that's going to happen how would that

3228
02:21:07,910 --> 02:21:05,130
change people and you know no think tank

3229
02:21:09,710 --> 02:21:07,920
is prescient they can make they can make

3230
02:21:12,320 --> 02:21:09,720
predictions about the future about human

3231
02:21:14,210 --> 02:21:12,330
psychology in some cases they have

3232
02:21:16,010 --> 02:21:14,220
access to more data than we do power

3233
02:21:18,710 --> 02:21:16,020
because they have you know all kinds of

3234
02:21:20,719 --> 02:21:18,720
bizarre unethical history but the CIA

3235
02:21:20,900 --> 02:21:20,729
and of the Japanese war criminals that

3236
02:21:22,490 --> 02:21:20,910
we

3237
02:21:24,290 --> 02:21:22,500
captured and learn from the Nazis as

3238
02:21:25,881 --> 02:21:24,300
well they didn't have a larger body of

3239
02:21:27,440 --> 02:21:25,891
knowledge to decide how people were

3240
02:21:29,030 --> 02:21:27,450
gonna react to different things we also

3241
02:21:32,870 --> 02:21:29,040
have of course you know that more of the

3242
02:21:35,540 --> 02:21:32,880
world's incidents sure so so I can't say

3243
02:21:38,511 --> 02:21:35,550
I'm an optimist about and again I'm I am

3244
02:21:39,890 --> 02:21:38,521
agnostic on most of the issues I will

3245
02:21:41,450 --> 02:21:39,900
tell you that the very fact that there

3246
02:21:42,980 --> 02:21:41,460
is a UFO policy and the fact that

3247
02:21:45,350 --> 02:21:42,990
Brookings Institution was writing these

3248
02:21:47,631 --> 02:21:45,360
documents about these things that is

3249
02:21:51,140 --> 02:21:47,641
something that any journalist who just

3250
02:21:53,091 --> 02:21:51,150
last saw UFOs is a fool that is

3251
02:21:55,160 --> 02:21:53,101
ultimately it is immediately your job to

3252
02:21:59,030 --> 02:21:55,170
look in into why that's the case doesn't

3253
02:22:02,000 --> 02:21:59,040
matter if UFOs exist or not it is a part

3254
02:22:04,250 --> 02:22:02,010
of the human psychology and to the

3255
02:22:07,430 --> 02:22:04,260
extent that's true it can be leveraged

3256
02:22:09,170 --> 02:22:07,440
by bad actors beyond that obviously to

3257
02:22:10,640 --> 02:22:09,180
the extent that it is true and I agree

3258
02:22:12,950 --> 02:22:10,650
with Jacquie valet that there is some

3259
02:22:15,140 --> 02:22:12,960
phenomenon that may be immaterial may

3260
02:22:17,570 --> 02:22:15,150
not be a physical phenomenon or it could

3261
02:22:19,610 --> 02:22:17,580
be some combination of things but uh to

3262
02:22:21,230 --> 02:22:19,620
the extent that that is the case

3263
02:22:23,450 --> 02:22:21,240
included to the extent that obviously

3264
02:22:27,350 --> 02:22:23,460
there's plenty of scientists who do not

3265
02:22:29,631 --> 02:22:27,360
oppose the idea of you know either extra

3266
02:22:32,060 --> 02:22:29,641
dimensional beings or you know sort of

3267
02:22:35,870 --> 02:22:32,070
physical you know old-school aliens of

3268
02:22:38,810 --> 02:22:35,880
the popular imagination it's it's it's a

3269
02:22:40,100 --> 02:22:38,820
crime against against the human

3270
02:22:42,860 --> 02:22:40,110
intellect and against our progress

3271
02:22:45,280 --> 02:22:42,870
forward to to use arguments from

3272
02:22:47,511 --> 02:22:45,290
absurdity and sort of scoff at things

3273
02:22:48,530 --> 02:22:47,521
without having fully investigated and

3274
02:22:52,370 --> 02:22:48,540
unfortunately it's a very widespread

3275
02:22:54,320 --> 02:22:52,380
crime if it is true if it were true that

3276
02:22:56,120 --> 02:22:54,330
there was for instance a secret alien

3277
02:22:57,740 --> 02:22:56,130
government we would never know about it

3278
02:22:59,180 --> 02:22:57,750
because how do you how do you begin the

3279
02:23:00,980 --> 02:22:59,190
process of getting an editor a producer

3280
02:23:02,360 --> 02:23:00,990
to listen to that I came and get them

3281
02:23:03,170 --> 02:23:02,370
for the most part to acknowledge things

3282
02:23:04,370 --> 02:23:03,180
that I've already written about

3283
02:23:05,360 --> 02:23:04,380
elsewhere because they don't think they

3284
02:23:08,570 --> 02:23:05,370
don't believe them if they haven't seen

3285
02:23:09,500 --> 02:23:08,580
them picked up by other outlets they're

3286
02:23:10,820 --> 02:23:09,510
just a lot of there's a lot of

3287
02:23:13,070 --> 02:23:10,830
heuristics involved there's a lot of

3288
02:23:15,530 --> 02:23:13,080
just poor logic involved in the way in

3289
02:23:17,390 --> 02:23:15,540
which we respond to things and that's

3290
02:23:19,390 --> 02:23:17,400
one of those things that I don't see

3291
02:23:21,591 --> 02:23:19,400
being fixed anytime soon

3292
02:23:23,680 --> 02:23:21,601
Gabriel thank you for the phone call my

3293
02:23:26,091 --> 02:23:23,690
friend enjoy the rest of your weekend

3294
02:23:28,341 --> 02:23:26,101
thank you guys very much I appreciate

3295
02:23:30,890 --> 02:23:28,351
you yeah thank you so much great phone

3296
02:23:33,860 --> 02:23:30,900
call very can I get you to hang on for

3297
02:23:34,610 --> 02:23:33,870
ten minutes or do a little overtime sure

3298
02:23:37,700 --> 02:23:34,620
sure I'm

3299
02:23:41,841 --> 02:23:37,710
I'm not finished tonight but I want to

3300
02:23:44,480 --> 02:23:41,851
go back and actually finish your thought

3301
02:23:46,850 --> 02:23:44,490
there which is this you said something

3302
02:23:50,680 --> 02:23:46,860
that I think it's critical if you went

3303
02:23:54,890 --> 02:23:50,690
to your news director or your editor and

3304
02:23:57,020 --> 02:23:54,900
said like sick forces Vanity Fair right

3305
02:23:58,820 --> 02:23:57,030
HuffPost you might get away with it

3306
02:24:00,320 --> 02:23:58,830
but if you you know you went to them and

3307
02:24:04,190 --> 02:24:00,330
said hey you know I got this serious

3308
02:24:06,530 --> 02:24:04,200
piece here about UFOs and abduction or a

3309
02:24:08,720 --> 02:24:06,540
sighting that happened and and I've got

3310
02:24:11,540 --> 02:24:08,730
this in the you know can I move forward

3311
02:24:13,490 --> 02:24:11,550
with this can I go out and and start to

3312
02:24:16,341 --> 02:24:13,500
talk to these these people and these

3313
02:24:17,841 --> 02:24:16,351
witnesses would you even would you even

3314
02:24:19,720 --> 02:24:17,851
have that conversation with the

3315
02:24:22,220 --> 02:24:19,730
Eradicator I mean where would that go I

3316
02:24:24,170 --> 02:24:22,230
can tell you their conversations with my

3317
02:24:27,230 --> 02:24:24,180
editors that I've had and that resulted

3318
02:24:28,880 --> 02:24:27,240
in me quitting eventually over those

3319
02:24:30,230 --> 02:24:28,890
kind of things in one case you know I

3320
02:24:32,030 --> 02:24:30,240
was asking to write about something that

3321
02:24:33,710 --> 02:24:32,040
I had already written about before this

3322
02:24:37,240 --> 02:24:33,720
is roma spoilers it was this large

3323
02:24:39,290 --> 02:24:37,250
apparatus that the US government uses

3324
02:24:40,761 --> 02:24:39,300
sort of propaganda and surveillance

3325
02:24:42,110 --> 02:24:40,771
thing it sort of too complex for us to

3326
02:24:43,870 --> 02:24:42,120
get our head around but it involves all

3327
02:24:46,070 --> 02:24:43,880
these aspects that we can point out like

3328
02:24:47,690 --> 02:24:46,080
everything from natural linguistics

3329
02:24:49,870 --> 02:24:47,700
process into cell phone games it was a

3330
02:24:51,860 --> 02:24:49,880
very strange deal I wrote about it

3331
02:24:53,630 --> 02:24:51,870
eventually for the Guardian and put out

3332
02:24:57,560 --> 02:24:53,640
a piece on our website back in the

3333
02:25:00,710 --> 02:24:57,570
project PM days and more recently uh max

3334
02:25:02,240 --> 02:25:00,720
Blumenthal has referenced that because

3335
02:25:03,740 --> 02:25:02,250
there was one aspect of it that this

3336
02:25:05,630 --> 02:25:03,750
editor could not get his head around and

3337
02:25:09,261 --> 02:25:05,640
that was that Apple and Google had both

3338
02:25:11,000 --> 02:25:09,271
met with Aaron Barr and these these

3339
02:25:12,470 --> 02:25:11,010
companies HBGary the ones that we

3340
02:25:14,570 --> 02:25:12,480
investigated originally the one driving

3341
02:25:17,511 --> 02:25:14,580
this team theme is scandal they met with

3342
02:25:19,430 --> 02:25:17,521
them and some larger companies to work

3343
02:25:21,920 --> 02:25:19,440
on this recompete contract for this big

3344
02:25:24,200 --> 02:25:21,930
apparatus now this is something we know

3345
02:25:26,540 --> 02:25:24,210
this the emails on this came come from

3346
02:25:27,980 --> 02:25:26,550
the same place the emails came on all

3347
02:25:29,540 --> 02:25:27,990
these other things that work that were a

3348
02:25:30,980 --> 02:25:29,550
big news on him for a month after we

3349
02:25:33,020 --> 02:25:30,990
discovered then the whole team famous

3350
02:25:35,930 --> 02:25:33,030
thing going after journalists blah blah

3351
02:25:37,580 --> 02:25:35,940
blah but first and we had the emails I

3352
02:25:40,640 --> 02:25:37,590
could point to him but for some reason

3353
02:25:43,670 --> 02:25:40,650
this editor who had been an editor at

3354
02:25:45,290 --> 02:25:43,680
major publications for quite a while he

3355
02:25:47,150 --> 02:25:45,300
just didn't think it would be the case

3356
02:25:48,570 --> 02:25:47,160
and he started lecturing me on how I've

3357
02:25:52,980 --> 02:25:48,580
misunderstood something

3358
02:25:55,920 --> 02:25:52,990
and so I can't even imagine uh you know

3359
02:25:58,980 --> 02:25:55,930
if a UFO crashed in the backyard of

3360
02:26:01,920 --> 02:25:58,990
where I'm at right now I'd probably just

3361
02:26:03,590 --> 02:26:01,930
you know I might take some pictures but

3362
02:26:05,790 --> 02:26:03,600
I wouldn't send I wouldn't send them to

3363
02:26:07,140 --> 02:26:05,800
you I hate the publication's arrived for

3364
02:26:08,250 --> 02:26:07,150
luckily I don't have to freelance very

3365
02:26:10,590 --> 02:26:08,260
much anymore I've got the book coming

3366
02:26:12,710 --> 02:26:10,600
out and all that so I you know I'm

3367
02:26:17,310 --> 02:26:12,720
getting out of that whole thing because

3368
02:26:18,210 --> 02:26:17,320
trying to convince an editor of

3369
02:26:19,560 --> 02:26:18,220
something he doesn't want to be

3370
02:26:21,780 --> 02:26:19,570
convinced of was something that that

3371
02:26:23,280 --> 02:26:21,790
sort of goes against his idea that the

3372
02:26:24,690 --> 02:26:23,290
press has things under control you know

3373
02:26:26,190 --> 02:26:24,700
a lot of people don't reason they don't

3374
02:26:28,170 --> 02:26:26,200
believe that JFK could have been

3375
02:26:30,390 --> 02:26:28,180
assassinated by a conspiracy involving

3376
02:26:32,761 --> 02:26:30,400
CIA elements is because they they have

3377
02:26:34,590 --> 02:26:32,771
that much faith in the press that they

3378
02:26:36,720 --> 02:26:34,600
would have gotten it right and that's a

3379
02:26:39,180 --> 02:26:36,730
big part of why it's very difficult to

3380
02:26:41,940 --> 02:26:39,190
deal with anything that for some reason

3381
02:26:43,890 --> 02:26:41,950
even has the the aura of being a

3382
02:26:45,750 --> 02:26:43,900
conspiracy theory the the term

3383
02:26:47,850 --> 02:26:45,760
conspiracy theory of course is vastly

3384
02:26:49,860 --> 02:26:47,860
misused as if as if conspiracies were

3385
02:26:52,410 --> 02:26:49,870
not something or some supernatural thing

3386
02:26:55,950 --> 02:26:52,420
that we can that we in hotel can't prove

3387
02:26:59,430 --> 02:26:55,960
the do Jake charges hundreds of people

3388
02:27:02,850 --> 02:26:59,440
with conspiracies every every month you

3389
02:27:04,320 --> 02:27:02,860
know it just opens up by the other

3390
02:27:06,720 --> 02:27:04,330
topics you know just about how we think

3391
02:27:09,120 --> 02:27:06,730
about a secret secrecy and how we think

3392
02:27:11,400 --> 02:27:09,130
about the possibilities inherent to

3393
02:27:13,470 --> 02:27:11,410
humanity but this is this is where we're

3394
02:27:16,730 --> 02:27:13,480
a race that you know thousands of years

3395
02:27:19,410 --> 02:27:16,740
ago throughout much of the world

3396
02:27:20,520 --> 02:27:19,420
convinced people to build pyramids in

3397
02:27:25,190 --> 02:27:20,530
honor of their godhood

3398
02:27:28,380 --> 02:27:25,200
there's you know that there is a great

3399
02:27:31,140 --> 02:27:28,390
vast potential of human experience and

3400
02:27:32,670 --> 02:27:31,150
of human folly and we have records of a

3401
02:27:35,370 --> 02:27:32,680
great deal of it some of some very

3402
02:27:37,470 --> 02:27:35,380
recent unfortunately it would be it

3403
02:27:40,801 --> 02:27:37,480
would be foolish for anyone to ever

3404
02:27:46,530 --> 02:27:40,811
really set forth to really hold on to a

3405
02:27:48,120 --> 02:27:46,540
concrete view of life and of reality and

3406
02:27:50,011 --> 02:27:48,130
that's what people have done for

3407
02:27:51,960 --> 02:27:50,021
thousands of years and we look back at

3408
02:27:53,580 --> 02:27:51,970
them and now we see that wrong when we

3409
02:27:54,540 --> 02:27:53,590
think they're wrong that's right and we

3410
02:27:55,770 --> 02:27:54,550
don't take this we don't take the same

3411
02:27:58,950 --> 02:27:55,780
lesson to heart so that's you know

3412
02:28:00,420 --> 02:27:58,960
that's a huge problem that informs lots

3413
02:28:01,769 --> 02:28:00,430
of other little little problems as well

3414
02:28:05,969 --> 02:28:01,779
well it's easier

3415
02:28:07,139 --> 02:28:05,979
to just take the easy road alright as a

3416
02:28:09,239 --> 02:28:07,149
practice as a practical matter no

3417
02:28:11,210 --> 02:28:09,249
journalist wants to even if a journalist

3418
02:28:14,699 --> 02:28:11,220
is convinced that there is something

3419
02:28:18,929 --> 02:28:14,709
that is involve importance that he can

3420
02:28:21,210 --> 02:28:18,939
probably prove via documents yes to ask

3421
02:28:23,579 --> 02:28:21,220
the question will anyone pay attention

3422
02:28:25,469 --> 02:28:23,589
well even get this past an editor and in

3423
02:28:27,869 --> 02:28:25,479
the process will I destroy my ability to

3424
02:28:29,819 --> 02:28:27,879
do other stories that's right and that's

3425
02:28:32,939 --> 02:28:29,829
that's that's absolutely the main thing

3426
02:28:35,819 --> 02:28:32,949
then there is there is less need and

3427
02:28:38,269 --> 02:28:35,829
then we would hope in an ideal world for

3428
02:28:40,619 --> 02:28:38,279
the kind of censorship apparatus that uh

3429
02:28:42,359 --> 02:28:40,629
you know some people think we have a lot

3430
02:28:45,269 --> 02:28:42,369
of it is automatics a lot of it is cell

3431
02:28:47,250 --> 02:28:45,279
is done by the failures of of that

3432
02:28:49,559 --> 02:28:47,260
industry a lot of it is done

3433
02:28:51,029 --> 02:28:49,569
person-to-person its the failures that

3434
02:28:52,979 --> 02:28:51,039
occur when people don't think properly

3435
02:28:54,269 --> 02:28:52,989
let's take a break right here and then

3436
02:28:56,609 --> 02:28:54,279
I'm gonna I'm gonna hold you over for

3437
02:28:59,039 --> 02:28:56,619
about ten more minutes okay and we

3438
02:29:01,260 --> 02:28:59,049
really appreciate this conversation this

3439
02:29:03,119 --> 02:29:01,270
is fade to black its fate or night I am

3440
02:29:05,309 --> 02:29:03,129
your host Jimmy Church more of your

3441
02:29:07,859 --> 02:29:05,319
phone calls are next but I'm gonna hold

3442
02:29:10,289 --> 02:29:07,869
bare it over because I want to ask him

3443
02:29:12,840 --> 02:29:10,299
about those days of disclosure with the

3444
02:29:13,320 --> 02:29:12,850
New York Times I'll be right back stay

3445
02:29:37,040 --> 02:29:13,330
with us

3446
02:29:42,540 --> 02:29:39,719
Viveca box here and you are listening to

3447
02:29:47,990 --> 02:29:42,550
my boy Jimmy Church on Jimmy Church

3448
02:29:52,179 --> 02:29:48,000
radio calm this fine popular opinion

3449
02:29:58,179 --> 02:29:52,189
reading a book will not make you smarter

3450
02:30:04,340 --> 02:30:02,450
hurricanes earthquakes wildfires this

3451
02:30:06,800 --> 02:30:04,350
year we've experienced more than our

3452
02:30:09,109 --> 02:30:06,810
fair share this is Jimmy Church of fade

3453
02:30:11,120 --> 02:30:09,119
to black and last month I decided to

3454
02:30:13,550 --> 02:30:11,130
make sure my family does not have to

3455
02:30:16,700 --> 02:30:13,560
worry about food should we get caught in

3456
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3490
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3491
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3495
02:32:04,211 --> 02:32:01,730
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3496
02:32:06,220 --> 02:32:04,221
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3497
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3498
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3499
02:32:12,401 --> 02:32:10,101
haunting you and you just felt better

3500
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3501
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3502
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feeling and looking 10 or 15 years

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3510
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3513
02:32:42,821 --> 02:32:40,911
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3514
02:32:45,191 --> 02:32:42,831
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3515
02:32:46,091 --> 02:32:45,201
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3516
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3517
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3518
02:32:52,600 --> 02:32:50,211
feeling better learn more in order your

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02:33:02,320 --> 02:32:52,610
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3520
02:33:16,850 --> 02:33:06,020
it's not a lifestyle we chose we were

3521
02:33:21,620 --> 02:33:16,860
born this way k GRA radio.com this is KJ

3522
02:33:21,630 --> 02:33:33,380
[Music]

3523
02:33:40,110 --> 02:33:36,750
all right welcome back fade to black

3524
02:33:43,340 --> 02:33:40,120
very special fader night bear Brown is

3525
02:33:46,320 --> 02:33:43,350
here hanging with the phone calls I

3526
02:33:47,820 --> 02:33:46,330
might add and it's doing a little

3527
02:33:51,750 --> 02:33:47,830
overtime with us I didn't want to let

3528
02:33:55,200 --> 02:33:51,760
him go without asking you about this

3529
02:33:57,060 --> 02:33:55,210
Barrett which is and it's interesting

3530
02:33:59,700 --> 02:33:57,070
how you brought up Jacque LA and

3531
02:34:02,310 --> 02:33:59,710
Brookings and certainly you've got a a

3532
02:34:03,630 --> 02:34:02,320
good fundamental foundation here and I

3533
02:34:06,480 --> 02:34:03,640
think that's great when we're talking

3534
02:34:08,730 --> 02:34:06,490
about UFOs but you're also a journalist

3535
02:34:14,940 --> 02:34:08,740
and you monitor what the mass media is

3536
02:34:20,070 --> 02:34:14,950
doing back in December 16th of 2017 the

3537
02:34:22,110 --> 02:34:20,080
New York Times released this UFO

3538
02:34:25,290 --> 02:34:22,120
information about the Pentagon having a

3539
02:34:28,920 --> 02:34:25,300
secret program some videos were released

3540
02:34:32,250 --> 02:34:28,930
a pilot had come forward and so forth

3541
02:34:34,170 --> 02:34:32,260
and that spun out of control and we had

3542
02:34:37,500 --> 02:34:34,180
about two or three months I'm sure you

3543
02:34:39,450 --> 02:34:37,510
saw all of it of constant media coverage

3544
02:34:42,450 --> 02:34:39,460
of the UFO subject for the first time

3545
02:34:44,690 --> 02:34:42,460
ever in the history of of this country

3546
02:34:48,450 --> 02:34:44,700
it's never been covered like that before

3547
02:34:52,050 --> 02:34:48,460
two things came out of that one was the

3548
02:34:55,800 --> 02:34:52,060
coverage but the second part was the

3549
02:34:58,830 --> 02:34:55,810
mass media suddenly whether it was print

3550
02:35:02,820 --> 02:34:58,840
online or television was suddenly

3551
02:35:05,070 --> 02:35:02,830
comfortable with with the subject what

3552
02:35:08,640 --> 02:35:05,080
what did you think about that as you saw

3553
02:35:12,570 --> 02:35:08,650
this front-page news of UFOs for the

3554
02:35:14,450 --> 02:35:12,580
first time my experience with both being

3555
02:35:17,100 --> 02:35:14,460
a subject of the press and being a

3556
02:35:18,630 --> 02:35:17,110
journalist and a press critic who pays

3557
02:35:22,410 --> 02:35:18,640
special attention to journalism is

3558
02:35:24,720 --> 02:35:22,420
generally that a lot of the things that

3559
02:35:29,780 --> 02:35:24,730
go down are very much the complex

3560
02:35:33,261 --> 02:35:29,790
results of personal ambition career ism

3561
02:35:38,070 --> 02:35:33,271
heuristics you know just poor thinking

3562
02:35:40,590 --> 02:35:38,080
money and ideology but a mixed in and

3563
02:35:42,360 --> 02:35:40,600
all different amounts the various

3564
02:35:43,800 --> 02:35:42,370
primality outlets there is also of

3565
02:35:47,000 --> 02:35:43,810
course historically a degree of

3566
02:35:49,229 --> 02:35:47,010
infiltration by intelligence communities

3567
02:35:51,300 --> 02:35:49,239
of the u.s. press and that was I think I

3568
02:35:53,519 --> 02:35:51,310
probably that's a peak and the later end

3569
02:35:55,679 --> 02:35:53,529
of the Cold War or the 60s and 70s when

3570
02:35:57,750 --> 02:35:55,689
you know you had Reuters you know

3571
02:35:59,760 --> 02:35:57,760
Washington Post Time magazine was you

3572
02:36:01,559 --> 02:35:59,770
know voluntarily sort of in the service

3573
02:36:06,599 --> 02:36:01,569
of the CIA Henry Luce you know was you

3574
02:36:08,490 --> 02:36:06,609
know having said that right now so I

3575
02:36:10,319 --> 02:36:08,500
read that article when it came out and I

3576
02:36:12,240 --> 02:36:10,329
was obviously interested to see what

3577
02:36:14,939 --> 02:36:12,250
would come of it from the press and I

3578
02:36:17,519 --> 02:36:14,949
didn't I didn't pay enough attention to

3579
02:36:21,269 --> 02:36:17,529
know to see how much coverage there was

3580
02:36:24,240 --> 02:36:21,279
in the aftermath I did find it very

3581
02:36:27,540 --> 02:36:24,250
telling and unsurprising that there was

3582
02:36:30,660 --> 02:36:27,550
a mention in that article of this alien

3583
02:36:33,990 --> 02:36:30,670
alloy that was being held in a building

3584
02:36:35,429 --> 02:36:34,000
I guess in New Mexico well it was sort

3585
02:36:39,540 --> 02:36:35,439
of noted in passing and then not really

3586
02:36:41,040 --> 02:36:39,550
dwelled upon right and so there's a

3587
02:36:43,769 --> 02:36:41,050
number of frameworks this can fall under

3588
02:36:46,559 --> 02:36:43,779
this we can explain this as my my

3589
02:36:50,040 --> 02:36:46,569
framework for this is that for some

3590
02:36:53,130 --> 02:36:50,050
reason or another you know these figures

3591
02:36:54,420 --> 02:36:53,140
around that project which is my

3592
02:36:55,740 --> 02:36:54,430
understanding includes some people who

3593
02:36:57,660 --> 02:36:55,750
are basically private citizens who were

3594
02:37:00,269 --> 02:36:57,670
always interested UFO ology and have now

3595
02:37:07,370 --> 02:37:00,279
been approached and asked to sort of I

3596
02:37:11,280 --> 02:37:07,380
guess oversee this this media initiative

3597
02:37:12,870 --> 02:37:11,290
and add beyond that bond that my my

3598
02:37:15,059 --> 02:37:12,880
interest is mostly been in how the press

3599
02:37:18,030 --> 02:37:15,069
takes it and the press you know I don't

3600
02:37:19,439 --> 02:37:18,040
think did a great job of you know

3601
02:37:20,729 --> 02:37:19,449
running with the questions here like

3602
02:37:22,590 --> 02:37:20,739
what's the deal with that alien alloy

3603
02:37:23,580 --> 02:37:22,600
that would've been my first question

3604
02:37:25,290 --> 02:37:23,590
like hey you just said there's an alien

3605
02:37:27,149 --> 02:37:25,300
owl in this building that's kind of a

3606
02:37:30,389 --> 02:37:27,159
huge deal which has been sort of buried

3607
02:37:32,219 --> 02:37:30,399
the lead I don't think the people who

3608
02:37:34,080 --> 02:37:32,229
wrote that article I do not think they

3609
02:37:35,639 --> 02:37:34,090
were working in accordance with some

3610
02:37:38,580 --> 02:37:35,649
plan it's possible they were being given

3611
02:37:40,950 --> 02:37:38,590
information by people who were I can say

3612
02:37:42,920 --> 02:37:40,960
that if someone does an article the New

3613
02:37:47,460 --> 02:37:42,930
York Times about something like UFOs

3614
02:37:49,170 --> 02:37:47,470
it's something that the editors then

3615
02:37:52,859 --> 02:37:49,180
doesn't necessarily occur encourage them

3616
02:37:54,120 --> 02:37:52,869
to do but it's on you it's unusual

3617
02:37:56,670 --> 02:37:54,130
obviously I'm not saying anything

3618
02:37:58,410 --> 02:37:56,680
surprising there but it's it's I wonder

3619
02:38:01,130 --> 02:37:58,420
the dynamics there at the New York Times

3620
02:38:04,439 --> 02:38:01,140
and how this came about

3621
02:38:07,050 --> 02:38:04,449
beyond that really I'm very much

3622
02:38:08,309 --> 02:38:07,060
I want sure of non-plus inspector I've

3623
02:38:11,819 --> 02:38:08,319
never really figured out what nonplussed

3624
02:38:14,729 --> 02:38:11,829
means I am I am I am confused about the

3625
02:38:18,330 --> 02:38:14,739
situation and there's and then there's

3626
02:38:20,489 --> 02:38:18,340
the other side of the issue which is in

3627
02:38:24,599 --> 02:38:20,499
you brought up the Brookings Institute

3628
02:38:26,309 --> 02:38:24,609
and the other reports that were done by

3629
02:38:30,929 --> 02:38:26,319
different agencies leading up to this

3630
02:38:32,399 --> 02:38:30,939
that once this was exposed like the New

3631
02:38:35,189 --> 02:38:32,409
York Times did and then it was you know

3632
02:38:38,340 --> 02:38:35,199
CNN and Fox and BBC and everybody

3633
02:38:41,489 --> 02:38:38,350
running with the story that religions

3634
02:38:43,410 --> 02:38:41,499
didn't collapse right Wall Street didn't

3635
02:38:47,460 --> 02:38:43,420
thought there wasn't pandemonium or

3636
02:38:50,729 --> 02:38:47,470
Anarchy or or civil unrest that part it

3637
02:38:53,130 --> 02:38:50,739
seemed to just just kind of blow by

3638
02:38:56,790 --> 02:38:53,140
everybody and there wasn't this this

3639
02:38:59,279 --> 02:38:56,800
crazy reaction that others had suggested

3640
02:39:01,559 --> 02:38:59,289
would happen once it was exposed like it

3641
02:39:03,029 --> 02:39:01,569
was part of that has to do with how

3642
02:39:04,889 --> 02:39:03,039
bizarre things are already without

3643
02:39:07,170 --> 02:39:04,899
bringing UFOs in this thing there's

3644
02:39:09,269 --> 02:39:07,180
always there's a blanket of unusual

3645
02:39:12,179 --> 02:39:09,279
things going on that probably muffled it

3646
02:39:17,689 --> 02:39:12,189
a little bit but but undoubtedly that's

3647
02:39:21,389 --> 02:39:17,699
also because you know a limited

3648
02:39:22,469 --> 02:39:21,399
disclosure like that regardless of the

3649
02:39:25,279 --> 02:39:22,479
truth behind it

3650
02:39:27,750 --> 02:39:25,289
that is something that people can easily

3651
02:39:30,510 --> 02:39:27,760
accommodate into their worldview the

3652
02:39:31,979 --> 02:39:30,520
people who believe that UFOs definitely

3653
02:39:34,559 --> 02:39:31,989
do not exist and that they're you know

3654
02:39:35,910 --> 02:39:34,569
just or whatever they have nope no have

3655
02:39:37,349 --> 02:39:35,920
no problem with that they'll say oh this

3656
02:39:39,029 --> 02:39:37,359
is some crazy some kooky guys and

3657
02:39:41,429 --> 02:39:39,039
they're just there's nothing to it

3658
02:39:43,859 --> 02:39:41,439
they'll say that the ones who are very

3659
02:39:46,529 --> 02:39:43,869
very fundamentalist religious religious

3660
02:39:48,090 --> 02:39:46,539
beliefs around the world will

3661
02:39:49,649 --> 02:39:48,100
incorporate it very quickly and easily

3662
02:39:50,819 --> 02:39:49,659
into their worldview just as the

3663
02:39:54,569 --> 02:39:50,829
Catholic Church has done for thousands

3664
02:39:55,800 --> 02:39:54,579
of years when they've needed to you know

3665
02:39:57,689 --> 02:39:55,810
the fact of the matter is that we are we

3666
02:40:03,000 --> 02:39:57,699
are people we are these conscious beings

3667
02:40:05,250 --> 02:40:03,010
that exist in this in this incomparable

3668
02:40:07,380 --> 02:40:05,260
situation already and so really nothing

3669
02:40:10,290 --> 02:40:07,390
should surprise anyone but you know that

3670
02:40:12,450 --> 02:40:10,300
there are there are sort of mental

3671
02:40:14,340 --> 02:40:12,460
structures in place that again that can

3672
02:40:14,700 --> 02:40:14,350
make some things dangerous but you know

3673
02:40:16,770 --> 02:40:14,710
a lot of them

3674
02:40:18,900 --> 02:40:16,780
they use about you know one civilization

3675
02:40:21,330 --> 02:40:18,910
more advanced encountering another one

3676
02:40:23,310 --> 02:40:21,340
in that civilization collapses

3677
02:40:25,140 --> 02:40:23,320
you know that's often true but it's

3678
02:40:27,750 --> 02:40:25,150
often not I mean the Chinese had no

3679
02:40:30,090 --> 02:40:27,760
problems you know encountering these

3680
02:40:31,830 --> 02:40:30,100
people was sometimes more technology

3681
02:40:33,150 --> 02:40:31,840
than them and incorporating them into

3682
02:40:34,260 --> 02:40:33,160
their culture and they've done a great

3683
02:40:37,620 --> 02:40:34,270
job of that in the last couple hundred

3684
02:40:40,110 --> 02:40:37,630
years it alot of the examples of you

3685
02:40:41,370 --> 02:40:40,120
know the Aztecs and Incas you know there

3686
02:40:45,330 --> 02:40:41,380
are other factors that wonders they were

3687
02:40:48,540 --> 02:40:45,340
overwhelmed by Cortes and and and

3688
02:40:51,420 --> 02:40:48,550
company there were just images other

3689
02:40:55,070 --> 02:40:51,430
other factions play so I just I can

3690
02:40:58,440 --> 02:40:55,080
still see why a high-end sort of

3691
02:41:00,210 --> 02:40:58,450
think-tank person around the government

3692
02:41:01,620 --> 02:41:00,220
intelligence would have been concerned

3693
02:41:03,870 --> 02:41:01,630
about that possibility

3694
02:41:08,190 --> 02:41:03,880
back in the 50s especially what they do

3695
02:41:10,380 --> 02:41:08,200
do about the sort of Cold War thinking I

3696
02:41:11,910 --> 02:41:10,390
guess we know I guess we now now have

3697
02:41:15,360 --> 02:41:11,920
more knowledge about how the public will

3698
02:41:18,060 --> 02:41:15,370
react to gradual disclosures of any

3699
02:41:21,660 --> 02:41:18,070
contact with aliens we know that now I

3700
02:41:24,690 --> 02:41:21,670
guess yeah and the other and you're

3701
02:41:26,610 --> 02:41:24,700
right about one point and before I even

3702
02:41:27,900 --> 02:41:26,620
say what that is I do want to thank you

3703
02:41:30,020 --> 02:41:27,910
for coming out tonight it's been an

3704
02:41:33,300 --> 02:41:30,030
amazing conversation I look forward to

3705
02:41:36,030 --> 02:41:33,310
talking not only in the future but you

3706
02:41:38,070 --> 02:41:36,040
mentioned queuing on I do want to get

3707
02:41:39,840 --> 02:41:38,080
into that with you at a later date and

3708
02:41:41,430 --> 02:41:39,850
some other stuff but it's just been a

3709
02:41:44,370 --> 02:41:41,440
fascinating conversation and thank you

3710
02:41:46,260 --> 02:41:44,380
but you did bring up I think a very

3711
02:41:52,230 --> 02:41:46,270
important point and some of the stuff

3712
02:41:54,710 --> 02:41:52,240
that you exposed not only with some of

3713
02:41:57,090 --> 02:41:54,720
the surveillance programs and the

3714
02:41:59,130 --> 02:41:57,100
civilian contractors and corporations

3715
02:42:02,640 --> 02:41:59,140
and the m.i.c the military industrial

3716
02:42:05,640 --> 02:42:02,650
complex that are using against our

3717
02:42:08,580 --> 02:42:05,650
citizens that that takes away some of

3718
02:42:11,130 --> 02:42:08,590
the shock of other things that would be

3719
02:42:13,140 --> 02:42:11,140
exposed later you know and that's I

3720
02:42:15,020 --> 02:42:13,150
think that's a very good point that you

3721
02:42:18,990 --> 02:42:15,030
brought up and you you were part of that

3722
02:42:21,020 --> 02:42:19,000
now before I say goodnight Kickstarter

3723
02:42:24,180 --> 02:42:21,030
has got three days left

3724
02:42:26,250 --> 02:42:24,190
where can everybody go we do have one of

3725
02:42:28,340 --> 02:42:26,260
the links up for Kickstarter but

3726
02:42:31,179 --> 02:42:28,350
pursuance project

3727
02:42:33,349 --> 02:42:31,189
org is the Kickstarter listed there

3728
02:42:35,240 --> 02:42:33,359
absolutely it's at the very top there so

3729
02:42:36,320 --> 02:42:35,250
you can you can look at the project and

3730
02:42:37,880 --> 02:42:36,330
you can look at the information on the

3731
02:42:39,559 --> 02:42:37,890
Kickstarter that that links you can get

3732
02:42:41,510 --> 02:42:39,569
a good overview of what this is and why

3733
02:42:44,929 --> 02:42:41,520
it's worth your support thank you so

3734
02:42:46,729 --> 02:42:44,939
much Barrett a welcome back man it's

3735
02:42:49,399 --> 02:42:46,739
good to me but it's kind of good to be

3736
02:42:52,639 --> 02:42:49,409
back it you know what go eat some string

3737
02:42:54,620 --> 02:42:52,649
beans man and welcome back and I can't

3738
02:42:58,250 --> 02:42:54,630
wait to have you back on the show I know

3739
02:43:00,019 --> 02:42:58,260
I'm looking at these reactions from

3740
02:43:02,170 --> 02:43:00,029
everybody tonight and start inside of

3741
02:43:04,700 --> 02:43:02,180
this community and it's a large one and

3742
02:43:06,500 --> 02:43:04,710
they just really enjoyed the show thank

3743
02:43:07,340 --> 02:43:06,510
you so much thank you again for having

3744
02:43:10,010 --> 02:43:07,350
me I appreciate it

3745
02:43:12,500 --> 02:43:10,020
Barrett Brown everybody it's very simple

3746
02:43:14,240 --> 02:43:12,510
go over to Jimmy Church radio.com you

3747
02:43:19,189 --> 02:43:14,250
can click on the Kickstarter links there

3748
02:43:21,620 --> 02:43:19,199
and it's also pursuance project.org go

3749
02:43:23,750 --> 02:43:21,630
and check it out it's an unbelievable

3750
02:43:25,160 --> 02:43:23,760
project he's been thinking about this

3751
02:43:28,550 --> 02:43:25,170
and putting this into place now for

3752
02:43:30,019 --> 02:43:28,560
almost 10 years and it's ready to go so

3753
02:43:32,719 --> 02:43:30,029
you can go and do your part over a

3754
02:43:36,950 --> 02:43:32,729
Kickstarter and go and read about all of

3755
02:43:38,660 --> 02:43:36,960
the details at pursuance project.org so

3756
02:43:43,189 --> 02:43:38,670
with that thank you so much better

3757
02:43:46,729 --> 02:43:43,199
behave and be well and I need to as I

3758
02:43:48,950 --> 02:43:46,739
say good night to bear it I'm going to

3759
02:43:50,960 --> 02:43:48,960
get back to these phones I've got so

3760
02:43:54,200 --> 02:43:50,970
many calls that have been on hold but

3761
02:43:56,240 --> 02:43:54,210
Barrett just did 2 hours and 15 minutes

3762
02:43:59,389 --> 02:43:56,250
tonight on fader night and took all of

3763
02:44:01,250 --> 02:43:59,399
those phone calls so there you go let's

3764
02:44:04,490 --> 02:44:01,260
let's go back to the phones hi you're

3765
02:44:06,410 --> 02:44:04,500
live on fade to black who's calling from

3766
02:44:10,219 --> 02:44:06,420
Sacramento hi Deb would you think about

3767
02:44:11,750 --> 02:44:10,229
that conversation I mean I had questions

3768
02:44:14,330 --> 02:44:11,760
I want to ask him I'm bummed that I

3769
02:44:16,370 --> 02:44:14,340
didn't get to him in time because of all

3770
02:44:18,439 --> 02:44:16,380
his research and everything but yeah I

3771
02:44:22,070 --> 02:44:18,449
mean a fascinating person and thank God

3772
02:44:23,990 --> 02:44:22,080
he's free yes finally unbelievable one

3773
02:44:27,019 --> 02:44:24,000
of the points that he brought up I

3774
02:44:29,929 --> 02:44:27,029
didn't want to dwell on the prison

3775
02:44:32,330 --> 02:44:29,939
experience he was huge like Jimmy I'll

3776
02:44:34,790 --> 02:44:32,340
talk about all of that but I didn't want

3777
02:44:37,670 --> 02:44:34,800
to revisit those because it's you know

3778
02:44:41,599 --> 02:44:37,680
it's not exactly a fun time but after he

3779
02:44:45,780 --> 02:44:41,609
gets out the second he talked to

3780
02:44:47,940 --> 02:44:45,790
they arrested him again and I was

3781
02:44:52,320 --> 02:44:47,950
reaching out to Barrett

3782
02:44:54,809 --> 02:44:52,330
- come on fade to black and you know and

3783
02:44:57,540 --> 02:44:54,819
and we had I was pushing and it was

3784
02:44:58,950 --> 02:44:57,550
about to happen and then they turn

3785
02:45:00,750 --> 02:44:58,960
around and arrest him for speaking of

3786
02:45:04,530 --> 02:45:00,760
ice which stopped him from coming on

3787
02:45:07,200 --> 02:45:04,540
this show and I just it's like

3788
02:45:10,710 --> 02:45:07,210
revisiting the nightmare again for him

3789
02:45:12,510 --> 02:45:10,720
and they they held him at an undisclosed

3790
02:45:15,510 --> 02:45:12,520
location and they wouldn't tell anybody

3791
02:45:17,400 --> 02:45:15,520
his family or anything what was going on

3792
02:45:20,280 --> 02:45:17,410
and it was like the nightmare started

3793
02:45:22,950 --> 02:45:20,290
all over again it was an unbelievable

3794
02:45:23,670 --> 02:45:22,960
thing he has been through a lot I just

3795
02:45:26,309 --> 02:45:23,680
talked about

3796
02:45:31,200 --> 02:45:26,319
he takes activists to a whole nother

3797
02:45:34,910 --> 02:45:31,210
level man he he definitely lives up to

3798
02:45:37,800 --> 02:45:34,920
everything that he says that he is about

3799
02:45:41,010 --> 02:45:37,810
mm-hmm absolutely hey can I go down

3800
02:45:42,690 --> 02:45:41,020
another road here real quick sure okay

3801
02:45:44,099 --> 02:45:42,700
because I didn't get to talk to America

3802
02:45:47,190 --> 02:45:44,109
since you had Emory on the other night

3803
02:45:49,050 --> 02:45:47,200
man my head was just wrapping around the

3804
02:45:50,550 --> 02:45:49,060
information that Emory gives us and one

3805
02:45:54,150 --> 02:45:50,560
of those things that he dropped was

3806
02:45:55,950 --> 02:45:54,160
Malaysian flight 370 mm-hmm and when he

3807
02:45:58,889 --> 02:45:55,960
disclosed what he what he felt what

3808
02:46:00,599 --> 02:45:58,899
really happened with that and I think

3809
02:46:02,040 --> 02:46:00,609
the fader nots the audience is so big a

3810
02:46:04,110 --> 02:46:02,050
lot of people tuned and so I hope

3811
02:46:06,059 --> 02:46:04,120
everyone and you know relates to what

3812
02:46:08,370 --> 02:46:06,069
I'm referring to so as I thought about

3813
02:46:10,860 --> 02:46:08,380
that situation it's like so when they do

3814
02:46:12,210 --> 02:46:10,870
something like that is they're thinking

3815
02:46:13,979 --> 02:46:12,220
you know well we got us enough this

3816
02:46:17,099 --> 02:46:13,989
whole Plane full of people to save this

3817
02:46:20,130 --> 02:46:17,109
server and saved possibly thousands of

3818
02:46:21,900 --> 02:46:20,140
military or government lives because of

3819
02:46:24,330 --> 02:46:21,910
the sensitive information on this server

3820
02:46:26,670 --> 02:46:24,340
so does the means justify the ends and

3821
02:46:30,330 --> 02:46:26,680
they obviously the answer in their mind

3822
02:46:32,580 --> 02:46:30,340
was yes and so that made me think back

3823
02:46:35,790 --> 02:46:32,590
to a conversation that you had with Tom

3824
02:46:38,099 --> 02:46:35,800
DeLonge and I think I don't remember

3825
02:46:42,210 --> 02:46:38,109
exactly how he put it but he was talking

3826
02:46:43,800 --> 02:46:42,220
about how the guys that have been you

3827
02:46:45,179 --> 02:46:43,810
know they get to we all get to go live

3828
02:46:46,830 --> 02:46:45,189
our lives and they're into the heavy

3829
02:46:48,750 --> 02:46:46,840
stuff and we have no idea what they're

3830
02:46:50,969 --> 02:46:48,760
dealing with and they have real hard

3831
02:46:53,280 --> 02:46:50,979
decisions to make and it kind of made me

3832
02:46:55,230 --> 02:46:53,290
go down that road mentally like what was

3833
02:46:57,961 --> 02:46:55,240
he referring to but yet he couldn't talk

3834
02:46:59,640 --> 02:46:57,971
it so does the means of his mind justify

3835
02:47:03,091 --> 02:46:59,650
the ends also because he knows

3836
02:47:05,490 --> 02:47:03,101
supposedly these inside things that they

3837
02:47:07,110 --> 02:47:05,500
have to sacrifice one thing to save you

3838
02:47:09,650 --> 02:47:07,120
know who knows thousands or millions of

3839
02:47:16,051 --> 02:47:09,660
people kind of just got me to thinking

3840
02:47:21,990 --> 02:47:16,061
well what I found and I'm in agreement

3841
02:47:24,660 --> 02:47:22,000
with you in that there's something going

3842
02:47:26,250 --> 02:47:24,670
on here and before we go what wait a

3843
02:47:29,390 --> 02:47:26,260
minute you know I brought up the

3844
02:47:31,591 --> 02:47:29,400
possibility of you know a portal and or

3845
02:47:34,740 --> 02:47:31,601
UFO's I was thinking something

3846
02:47:38,030 --> 02:47:34,750
supernatural paranormal but there was

3847
02:47:41,160 --> 02:47:38,040
when when the second plane was shot down

3848
02:47:44,790 --> 02:47:41,170
there was this is where I had an issue

3849
02:47:47,430 --> 02:47:44,800
so I go back and I looked at Malaysian

3850
02:47:51,150 --> 02:47:47,440
Airlines now before anybody picks apart

3851
02:47:54,511 --> 02:47:51,160
what I'm about to say factually don't

3852
02:47:59,570 --> 02:47:54,521
worry about doing that I did go back and

3853
02:48:03,750 --> 02:47:59,580
look and I think they had at the time

3854
02:48:08,551 --> 02:48:03,760
something like twelve planes right

3855
02:48:13,381 --> 02:48:08,561
twelve or 14 or whatever and we have to

3856
02:48:19,940 --> 02:48:13,391
stop and think about the odds of two

3857
02:48:23,671 --> 02:48:19,950
identical planes for the same airline

3858
02:48:27,801 --> 02:48:23,681
you know and I just thought this is way

3859
02:48:31,500 --> 02:48:27,811
beyond the odds of the known universe

3860
02:48:36,540 --> 02:48:31,510
you know this is like somebody hitting

3861
02:48:38,370 --> 02:48:36,550
the lottery the the mega two weeks in a

3862
02:48:43,320 --> 02:48:38,380
row I mean what are the odds of that

3863
02:48:45,091 --> 02:48:43,330
right and and not only those odds but

3864
02:48:48,900 --> 02:48:45,101
the fact that it came from was such a

3865
02:48:52,381 --> 02:48:48,910
small pool of airplanes it's a very very

3866
02:48:55,020 --> 02:48:52,391
small number and I thought that there's

3867
02:48:57,330 --> 02:48:55,030
got to be a way that these two are

3868
02:49:02,100 --> 02:48:57,340
connected could it have been the same

3869
02:49:04,711 --> 02:49:02,110
plane now when some of the conspiracy

3870
02:49:09,029 --> 02:49:04,721
guys out there that were looking and I

3871
02:49:10,920 --> 02:49:09,039
got tons of email dabbe showing me

3872
02:49:13,590 --> 02:49:10,930
the photographs of the plane and

3873
02:49:15,809 --> 02:49:13,600
different angles of it and things that

3874
02:49:18,989 --> 02:49:15,819
said that it was the same plane that it

3875
02:49:21,149 --> 02:49:18,999
wasn't a different plane I realize that

3876
02:49:22,649 --> 02:49:21,159
I forget one of the guys that was

3877
02:49:25,590 --> 02:49:22,659
presenting this stuff was getting his

3878
02:49:27,149 --> 02:49:25,600
website hacked and and images were

3879
02:49:28,920 --> 02:49:27,159
disappearing I can't remember who it was

3880
02:49:32,489 --> 02:49:28,930
it doesn't really matter she imagined

3881
02:49:34,019 --> 02:49:32,499
that imagine that and so I'm trying to

3882
02:49:36,389 --> 02:49:34,029
chase down this info and every time I

3883
02:49:38,910 --> 02:49:36,399
was getting close to starting to see it

3884
02:49:42,210 --> 02:49:38,920
these images were disappearing in and

3885
02:49:44,300 --> 02:49:42,220
the site was hacked but that's when I

3886
02:49:50,519 --> 02:49:44,310
had to back up and go wait a minute here

3887
02:49:57,269 --> 02:49:50,529
how gullible is this planet that they

3888
02:50:00,809 --> 02:49:57,279
are able to accept that Malaysian Air

3889
02:50:03,120 --> 02:50:00,819
lost two planes like that nearly

3890
02:50:05,790 --> 02:50:03,130
back-to-back and that we're just

3891
02:50:07,649 --> 02:50:05,800
supposed to go ah well you know stuff

3892
02:50:10,920 --> 02:50:07,659
happens you know I want to use another

3893
02:50:16,439 --> 02:50:10,930
word there that it just it just happens

3894
02:50:21,719 --> 02:50:16,449
no it doesn't right but nobody it seemed

3895
02:50:23,719 --> 02:50:21,729
like to me when it came to not only what

3896
02:50:27,359 --> 02:50:23,729
happened in the Ukraine but the original

3897
02:50:29,910 --> 02:50:27,369
Malaysian plane disappearance that there

3898
02:50:32,460 --> 02:50:29,920
were no journalists out there and no

3899
02:50:36,510 --> 02:50:32,470
organizations that were willing to ask

3900
02:50:38,550 --> 02:50:36,520
the very simple basic questions which is

3901
02:50:42,510 --> 02:50:38,560
how do you lose a plane on radar when we

3902
02:50:46,290 --> 02:50:42,520
have worldwide GPS these days that Rolls

3903
02:50:49,950 --> 02:50:46,300
Royce has all of the real-time telemetry

3904
02:50:52,080 --> 02:50:49,960
going back to their company for every

3905
02:50:54,569 --> 02:50:52,090
rolls-royce engine that is running on

3906
02:50:56,819 --> 02:50:54,579
this planet and they are able to look at

3907
02:50:59,040 --> 02:50:56,829
the status of any engine and suddenly

3908
02:51:01,979 --> 02:50:59,050
when a plane disappears they don't have

3909
02:51:04,229 --> 02:51:01,989
that data you know and and these are

3910
02:51:07,319 --> 02:51:04,239
very basic fundamental questions that

3911
02:51:10,050 --> 02:51:07,329
weren't being asked and I was very

3912
02:51:11,910 --> 02:51:10,060
frustrated with that I I didn't

3913
02:51:15,739 --> 02:51:11,920
understand why and I still don't to this

3914
02:51:19,050 --> 02:51:15,749
day why somebody doesn't go back and

3915
02:51:21,510 --> 02:51:19,060
investigate the story that everybody was

3916
02:51:22,130 --> 02:51:21,520
willing to just let it go the search end

3917
02:51:24,469 --> 02:51:22,140
it

3918
02:51:26,240 --> 02:51:24,479
process you know the presses the prep

3919
02:51:28,880 --> 02:51:26,250
the majority of the mainstream media is

3920
02:51:30,620 --> 02:51:28,890
paid off and to suppress these things

3921
02:51:32,960 --> 02:51:30,630
and that's why they arrest people like

3922
02:51:35,000 --> 02:51:32,970
your guests you know they do not want

3923
02:51:37,040 --> 02:51:35,010
the truth coming out about this or Vegas

3924
02:51:38,870 --> 02:51:37,050
and 9/11 or any of it and the minute

3925
02:51:41,269 --> 02:51:38,880
that that story came out of Emory's

3926
02:51:43,099 --> 02:51:41,279
mouth it suddenly I mean number one I

3927
02:51:46,519 --> 02:51:43,109
believe anything that he says because I

3928
02:51:48,260 --> 02:51:46,529
think he's very credible but it just

3929
02:51:54,290 --> 02:51:48,270
kind of made it made so much sense it's

3930
02:51:57,800 --> 02:51:54,300
like whoa well and we have everything

3931
02:51:59,630 --> 02:51:57,810
about 370 with all of those questions

3932
02:52:02,410 --> 02:51:59,640
that are there okay

3933
02:52:05,780 --> 02:52:02,420
there's home there's hundreds if not

3934
02:52:08,330 --> 02:52:05,790
thousands of unanswered questions there

3935
02:52:12,559 --> 02:52:08,340
there's that part when we go back to the

3936
02:52:18,320 --> 02:52:12,569
Ukraine we have the plane we have the

3937
02:52:19,399 --> 02:52:18,330
records and it is in a civilized part of

3938
02:52:22,399 --> 02:52:19,409
this world

3939
02:52:26,000 --> 02:52:22,409
where you had two armies against each

3940
02:52:27,679 --> 02:52:26,010
other and so there's there is the

3941
02:52:31,719 --> 02:52:27,689
weapons on the ground there's the flight

3942
02:52:35,750 --> 02:52:31,729
data there is black boxes there are

3943
02:52:38,990 --> 02:52:35,760
radars we the ability to find out what

3944
02:52:41,899 --> 02:52:39,000
kind of missile and where and who shot

3945
02:52:44,599 --> 02:52:41,909
this plane down that all of this

3946
02:52:48,830 --> 02:52:44,609
investigation and journalism would be

3947
02:52:50,660 --> 02:52:48,840
easy to do and none of it was followed

3948
02:52:55,760 --> 02:52:50,670
through on none of it

3949
02:52:57,530 --> 02:52:55,770
it's that is a crazy crazy situation

3950
02:53:00,800 --> 02:52:57,540
where and the world was just willing to

3951
02:53:03,290 --> 02:53:00,810
just go whatever it was just you know it

3952
02:53:06,250 --> 02:53:03,300
just was shot down and crashed you know

3953
02:53:09,380 --> 02:53:06,260
doesn't matter who did it whatever and

3954
02:53:15,309 --> 02:53:09,390
no ability to go to the crash site if

3955
02:53:18,710 --> 02:53:15,319
you remember right and it seemed to be

3956
02:53:20,960 --> 02:53:18,720
accepted and I was very frustrated with

3957
02:53:22,519 --> 02:53:20,970
that I would I would have thought that

3958
02:53:24,469 --> 02:53:22,529
there would have been an army of

3959
02:53:26,719 --> 02:53:24,479
researchers investigators and

3960
02:53:29,360 --> 02:53:26,729
organizations that would have put up a

3961
02:53:32,719 --> 02:53:29,370
fight and gone in and tried to find out

3962
02:53:35,090 --> 02:53:32,729
the truth but it never happened you know

3963
02:53:35,570 --> 02:53:35,100
so why didn't it was it because it was

3964
02:53:39,051 --> 02:53:35,580
the same

3965
02:53:41,000 --> 02:53:39,061
was it mh370 right was it this crazy

3966
02:53:42,860 --> 02:53:41,010
conspiracy theory that people have been

3967
02:53:46,220 --> 02:53:42,870
talking about well now you know what

3968
02:53:48,740 --> 02:53:46,230
we'll never know we never will

3969
02:53:51,440 --> 02:53:48,750
well let's not forget the CIA is the one

3970
02:53:53,390 --> 02:53:51,450
that created the terms conspiracy theory

3971
02:53:54,860 --> 02:53:53,400
so they did it for a reason you know

3972
02:53:56,240 --> 02:53:54,870
people who want to seek the truth

3973
02:53:58,761 --> 02:53:56,250
there's nothing wrong with that but

3974
02:54:00,320 --> 02:53:58,771
we're not allowed to what we will on the

3975
02:54:02,270 --> 02:54:00,330
internet we searched and we searched but

3976
02:54:03,920 --> 02:54:02,280
then you know we're you know discounted

3977
02:54:06,020 --> 02:54:03,930
with conspiracy theorist but credible

3978
02:54:08,150 --> 02:54:06,030
people like ferret they arrest him and

3979
02:54:10,130 --> 02:54:08,160
look what they did to Tommy Robinson so

3980
02:54:12,410 --> 02:54:10,140
again you know it's it is very

3981
02:54:16,250 --> 02:54:12,420
frustrating you know what was really

3982
02:54:17,450 --> 02:54:16,260
cool tonight with Barrett now I had no

3983
02:54:20,720 --> 02:54:17,460
idea about

3984
02:54:23,090 --> 02:54:20,730
Barrett's UFO knowledge okay didn't know

3985
02:54:27,590 --> 02:54:23,100
and I've been looking at his life for

3986
02:54:30,040 --> 02:54:27,600
for for a long time and been a big fan

3987
02:54:34,660 --> 02:54:30,050
of not only his work but his fight for

3988
02:54:39,110 --> 02:54:34,670
for journalism and freedom of speech but

3989
02:54:41,090 --> 02:54:39,120
very refreshing to hear his take when he

3990
02:54:44,390 --> 02:54:41,100
is talking about he didn't mention

3991
02:54:47,240 --> 02:54:44,400
Project Mockingbird by name but that's

3992
02:54:50,030 --> 02:54:47,250
what you know he was cij's quite

3993
02:54:52,490 --> 02:54:50,040
familiar with all of these subjects and

3994
02:54:56,020 --> 02:54:52,500
he was very comfortable and going there

3995
02:54:58,130 --> 02:54:56,030
I was very impressed for that mm-hmm

3996
02:55:00,080 --> 02:54:58,140
yeah the mini study picked up jacques

3997
02:55:02,170 --> 02:55:00,090
believes look I get here too surprising

3998
02:55:05,150 --> 02:55:02,180
his voice oh really

3999
02:55:11,030 --> 02:55:05,160
yeah that was cool I did I was like he

4000
02:55:14,180 --> 02:55:11,040
didn't just say Jacques Vallee did he he

4001
02:55:16,430 --> 02:55:14,190
said dude you know and you've got to uh

4002
02:55:18,320 --> 02:55:16,440
you've got to have a basic little

4003
02:55:22,190 --> 02:55:18,330
foundation to be able to go into those

4004
02:55:24,350 --> 02:55:22,200
zones and and talk about it a very very

4005
02:55:27,740 --> 02:55:24,360
bright guy with his feet on the ground

4006
02:55:30,140 --> 02:55:27,750
and what what a great show tonight not

4007
02:55:32,120 --> 02:55:30,150
only for the fader nots but for myself

4008
02:55:34,670 --> 02:55:32,130
too as well that was just an amazing

4009
02:55:37,070 --> 02:55:34,680
conversation I'm glad he's on our side

4010
02:55:39,820 --> 02:55:37,080
oh he's a hundred percent and then he

4011
02:55:43,670 --> 02:55:39,830
said he went on I was like oh here we go

4012
02:55:45,710 --> 02:55:43,680
you know and I did I just thought we're

4013
02:55:46,250 --> 02:55:45,720
gonna I wanted to talk to him about

4014
02:55:50,450 --> 02:55:46,260
queuing

4015
02:55:53,599 --> 02:55:50,460
but he he is somebody that as busy as he

4016
02:55:56,679 --> 02:55:53,609
is with the pursuance project in his new

4017
02:55:59,030 --> 02:55:56,689
book you know my glorious defeats and

4018
02:56:02,990 --> 02:55:59,040
everything that he's got going on in his

4019
02:56:06,320 --> 02:56:03,000
life to say these things right in a row

4020
02:56:09,380 --> 02:56:06,330
he he is well-read and he is on top of

4021
02:56:12,019 --> 02:56:09,390
on top of the world as far as reason

4022
02:56:13,370 --> 02:56:12,029
yeah on top of some of the rhetoric -

4023
02:56:15,650 --> 02:56:13,380
and let me just say in closing cuz I'm

4024
02:56:19,010 --> 02:56:15,660
let's go Jim I'm a big Trump supporter

4025
02:56:20,510 --> 02:56:19,020
but I completely discredit the whole qyn

4026
02:56:22,429 --> 02:56:20,520
on Tom and I think it's a PSYOP

4027
02:56:25,250 --> 02:56:22,439
distraction take people off what's

4028
02:56:27,320 --> 02:56:25,260
really important well I probably just

4029
02:56:30,679 --> 02:56:27,330
made a lot of enemies or that's alright

4030
02:56:32,300 --> 02:56:30,689
you know every time a speech action dead

4031
02:56:34,389 --> 02:56:32,310
that's what this show is all about have

4032
02:56:36,500 --> 02:56:34,399
a great night and enjoy your weekend

4033
02:56:38,960 --> 02:56:36,510
thanks Jim you too take care

4034
02:56:42,800 --> 02:56:38,970
thank you Michael and with that that

4035
02:56:43,429 --> 02:56:42,810
will wrap this special edition of fate

4036
02:56:46,610 --> 02:56:43,439
or night

4037
02:56:50,690 --> 02:56:46,620
I do want to thank Barrett Brown for not

4038
02:56:53,059 --> 02:56:50,700
only coming in and engaging in a very

4039
02:56:55,790 --> 02:56:53,069
amazing conversation but Manning the

4040
02:56:57,559 --> 02:56:55,800
phones here that was just incredible

4041
02:57:00,889 --> 02:56:57,569
what a great conversation again

4042
02:57:03,230 --> 02:57:00,899
pursuance project.org and the

4043
02:57:05,870 --> 02:57:03,240
Kickstarter links are over at Jimmy

4044
02:57:09,650 --> 02:57:05,880
Church radio.com and we do have them up

4045
02:57:11,450 --> 02:57:09,660
right there in Twitter man I want to

4046
02:57:14,030 --> 02:57:11,460
thank everybody that not only tweeted

4047
02:57:16,510 --> 02:57:14,040
tonight but all of the phone calls what

4048
02:57:19,040 --> 02:57:16,520
a great conversation paid to Black's

4049
02:57:21,650 --> 02:57:19,050
executive producer is Rita Kumari on

4050
02:57:24,200 --> 02:57:21,660
show is produced by Hilton tape palm

4051
02:57:26,660 --> 02:57:24,210
Renee Dennis and Bob announcers are

4052
02:57:30,080 --> 02:57:26,670
Steve Carter Jean Vitolo Mardi Cove our

4053
02:57:33,260 --> 02:57:30,090
webmaster is Drew the geek music doug

4054
02:57:36,290 --> 02:57:33,270
aldrich intro space boys space boy music

4055
02:57:39,260 --> 02:57:36,300
calm they the black is produced by

4056
02:57:43,309 --> 02:57:39,270
kjsurya game-changer network syndication

4057
02:57:45,410 --> 02:57:43,319
is kgr a the planet sprawl cast own a

4058
02:57:46,820 --> 02:57:45,420
copyright of 2018 by fade to black in

4059
02:57:49,160 --> 02:57:46,830
the game changer network

4060
02:57:50,780 --> 02:57:49,170
it cannot be rebroadcast downloaded

4061
02:57:51,790 --> 02:57:50,790
copied or used anywhere in the known

4062
02:57:53,529 --> 02:57:51,800
universe

4063
02:57:55,689 --> 02:57:53,539
without written permission from fade to

4064
02:57:57,250 --> 02:57:55,699
black of the GameChanger network my

4065
02:58:00,279 --> 02:57:57,260
meals to be Church follow me on Twitter

4066
02:58:05,370 --> 02:58:00,289
@ JT radio you can follow Barrett at

4067
02:58:07,540 --> 02:58:05,380
Barrett Brown underscore until Monday

4068
02:58:10,380 --> 02:58:07,550
everybody be safe

4069
02:58:17,540 --> 02:58:10,390
go back Lee taffy